Hi forum,
My name is Eduardo. I am a 200 hr VFR PPL pilot based in Thailand.
I currently own and fly a Tecnam P92JS. Some of my exploits can be seen at cmflyingclub.com/Malaysian%2 … 02007.html
I am in a position to upgrade my aircraft and have the criteria below as the requirements I wish to fulfil.
This has led me to choose between either a Cessna P210 Silver Eagle, or a Beechcraft Bonanza A36 Prop Jet. I realise that this is a big jump from where I am, but I intend to get my IFR rating before I take delivery of the aircraft, and I will also have a dedicated CFI with me full time for 8 weeks for proper transition training here in Thailand.
My question to the forum based on the fact I have budget for buying and operating these aircraft is which one? My current preference which is due to the build reputation and other non Turbine comments on this forum would be to go for the A36, but the Silver Eagle also looks like an impressive machine.
I am also open to any other non Avgas based suggestions as well!
Many thanks in advance.
Eduardo
My requirements:-
4-6 seater with luggage carrier for cross country trips upto 800 Nm
I require a STOL aircraft capable of operating out of 1,000 ft grass and
dirt strips here in Thailand fully loaded.
Non Avgas burner, Avgas only available at very limited larger airports here in Thailand. Jet A1 much more available. I have also heard these turbines will run on car diesel in an emergency? Is this correct?
Min 5 hrs endurance.
Fully IFR equipped/ capable.
As much as I love Beechcraft products, I am going to recommend the P210 Silver Eagle to you. The reason is the pressurization – the Bonanza doesn’t have it, and as such, can’t get high enough to truly take advantage of what its turbine offers. Additionally, the turbine that the P210 uses is much more user friendly, and has lower operating costs.
As Chris says, you need the Cessna P210 Silver Eagle. It’s an amazing machine, and the company has top service. The owner of the company takes care of every need you should get aldo he has a hearing problem this guy is great. (just remember to yell at the phone)
The bonanza is better for carrying passengers tough…
They just strip your 210 all the way down and rebuild it amazingly, the pressurisation is great for your passengers and yourself, aldo i don’t like the landing gear on the 210, and it’s not an easy plane to land it’s a great machine, have fun with it!!
I have considered the 172 with the diesel conversion as they are available here in Thailand, but discounted it due to sluggish take off performance, and the fact a 172 does not appear to be a true 4 seater fully loaded with luggage, nor does it have the speed I want ideally…
The A36 I was looking at has the same Alison 250 turbine in it and the same prop configuration as the 210.
Thanks for the comments through most usefull for me to consider.
To be honest I did not intend to fly above 15,000 ft much here in Thailand other than to avoid weather from time to time. A lot of the pleasure of flying here is to fly quite low along the many beautiful costlines.
I do have a couple of follow on questions…
Can these turbines run ordinary car diesel in an emegency? JetA1 is not always available, although considering the endurance of both aircraft, I don’t really anticipate this being a necessity very often, but nice to have in the back pocket if the need ever arose… I have been told they can but it is not recommended for long periods of time, and I have also been told they cannot. It would be nice to hear from anyone who has actualy done it, or knows for sure either way.
and secondly, this may be a dumb question, but if the 210 is pressurised, this means it is airtight so presumably would float on water if I ever had to ditch in water in an emergency? There are many water based routes here. May well be another bonus consideration.
Many thanks to all who have been contributing to this topic.
Don’t know what your budget is; but I’d look at the Pilatus or the Cessna Caravan. Both would leave the aircraft you’ve mentioned in the dust as they are not for short/un-improved strips, as the others are.
I agree !!! The cessna caravan flies like a true GA plane and you can load whatever you want in it!!! You can buy second hands the same price as a C210 conversion!!!
A company in Reno, Nev., called GreenFlight International, earlier this month flew a Czech-built L-39 jet on 100 percent biofuel. The group gradually increased the percentage of biofuel, made from renewable sources, mixed with diesel. Test pilot Carol Sugars said, “The aircraft continued to perform well, giving me the confidence to transition to 100 percent.” Flight tests up to 17,000 feet showed no significant difference in performance compared to conventional jet fuel, the company said.
Given that you are going to stay relatively low, the Bonanza start coming back into the equation as it is an easy plane to get passengers in and out of vis-a-vis the C210. As to the pressurization question that you asked, theoretically, yes, it will float – BUT there are many presumptions made with this theoretical. I wouldn’t count or bet my life on it. A water ditch landing is like hitting a brick wall, and it takes a great deal of skill and some luck to manage surfing on the water as opposed to breaking the aircraft apart on impact.
While the PC12 is an excellent aircraft, they are quite expensive, overvalued in the market, and insurance will be significantly higher. The Caravan is a good alternative (though slower), but again, the insurance costs will be higher (more seats = higher insurance). However, I disagree that the C210 or BE36 turbines is not a good short/soft field aircraft – of course, it all depends on one’s definition of short and soft. In other words, it is a somewhat subjective interpretation.
I can’t speak to whether Allison has approved diesel in their emergency limitations section. I do know the Pratts do not have diesel in the approved emergency fuel section. Pratts are generally approved for emergency fuels of 80, 100, 100LL, 80/87, 100/130, 115/145. With the usage of these emergency fuels comes the additional limitation on the engine of 150 hours before overhaul (e.g. if the aircraft burns 35 gals/hr. and you put 35 gals. of the emergency approved fuels in the tanks, you need to take 1 hour off of the 150 hours you are approved for in the engine logbook). Approved normal fuels are Jet-A, A1, B, JP4, JP5, JP8 with no additional limitation.
The test on 100% biodiesel was performed on an L-29 – the older brother of the L-39. The L-29’s engine is actually approved for diesel fuel use, and as such, makes a good test bed for biodiesel.
Would you have any problem finding AvGas as opposed to car diesel?
Note that pressurized aircraft aren’t air tight, they just leak slowly enough that cabin pressure can be maintained with a bit of pressurized air from the engine.
1000ft strips are way too tight for a PC12, even a lightly loaded one. The caravan might be able to do it empty, but not comfortably. I’ll restate the need for an extremely short-field capable airplane like a Pilatus Porter if the OP really would like to land on such short fields.
Not so sure of that. I watched a factory pilot depart in a PC12 from a 1400 foot gravel strip at 5000’ MSL on a hot day last weekend with runway to spare.
Actually landing in 1000ft would be easier. I’ve done that. If its an unimproved strip you don’t want to use a whole bunch of reverse though, it’d tear the crap out of the props.
I’ll look up some numbers in my AFM in a few minutes and report back.
At MHT landing runway 24, touching down between the numbers and the 1000’ markers and easily stopping before taxiway H. (look on google earth to see the 1000’ markers) Granted, there are no huge trees at the end of the runway, but I’m also not a bush pilot.
its a new single-engine, turboprop, 10-place utility aircraft with Pratt & Whitney’s PT6 turbine engine, landing gear designed for unimproved airstrips, 19-inch propeller ground clearance, 29-inch main tires, and short-take-off-and-landing (STOL) performance that beats any aircraft currently in its class ???
) and i doubt that the PC12 would be able to do that gently with less than 1000ft ??