Flight Planning "Summary" experiences


#1

Mark,

Figure to star a new “summary thread” as I know the original thread was lengthy on my learning experiences thus far so hopefully this post will help you weed out the wheat from the chaff.

At work as I write this and using MSIE 6.0. I cleared out the cache, cookies to make sure these were not a factor in my experiences. Java version is current with 1.4.1_02 at work.

Problems outstanding this morning.

Cannot add new pilot information (after shift and reload) still get “error on page” in the lower left corner. This problem is unique to MSIE 6.0 as I installed Firefox at work and I can add a pilot so it’s not the computer.

Cannot delete aircraft in the aircraft hangar. (MSIE and Fire Fox)

Cannot edit performance profiles that are blank under description. I get service interruption at the bottom of the page (MSIE and Fire Fox )

Cannot edit existing altitude in a valid performance entry and no delete button to get rid of the erroneous entry. (MSIE and Fire Fox)

Cannot proceed past Plan Flight - get service error (MSIE 6.0 and FireFox)

Suggestions from the prior thread

Some validation of field entry should be in order before allowing to proceed to the flight planning part (I.E missing field required). This prevents having to use the back button.

Change verbage “hold altitude” should show “final cruise altitude”

Allow the saving of flight levels (set as default in profile) so it doesn’t have to be retyped every flight plan.

Aircraft data, save the settings in profile and set as default for people like me that only flies one bird.

Clarify instructions to say what you put in your post The performance data is intended to be at points, not over ranges.

Allow user configuration for most common airports (maybe the allowance for three buttons to the right of the last three airports shown in the departure and destination sections of the flight planner)


#2

We’re looking into this. Also, “hold altitude” is the altitude you’d hold at after the approach before going to your alternate. I think it should be set per aircraft, though.


#3

The issues with adding/editing/deleting pilots/aircraft/performance profiles should be gone. If they’re not, pull up this page and hold down shift while clicking reload in your browser.

We’ll clarify how to enter altitudes for performance data. We really shouldn’t have the zero altitude in the list, as that causes problems (you had a row for 0 altitude climb, but I removed it).

The airport suggestions for origin and destination are the airports in your profile as My Airports.

Prompting for bad input without submitting the form is hard, but definitely something we’ll look into.

It should work the same in all modern browsers.

I’ve reviewed the errors you’ve experienced and the only one remaining is that if you enter a minimum cruising altitude below your origin or destination it will show a service interruption.


#4

Mark,

Tried the above reload method, cleared my privacy data to double verify that nothing was in cache or cookies and N1943l (lower case L) will not delete. Nothing happens, I click delete and it just goes back to the hangar page with both planes displayed.

Under the above error aircraft, I still cannot edit performance profile (get service error as of the time of this posting or slightly before)

Still getting service error for N1943L when trying to create a new flight plan

Tried using sample C172 new in drop down and still getting service error (time should be shortly before this posting) when trying to do a flight plan.

Firefox 3.0.3 is the version I am using at home.

Ahhh DUHHH gotchya, makes perfect sense how KJAN evolved :slight_smile:


#5

For now, you can’t delete an aircraft that has performance profiles defined. Of course when you can’t delete performance profiles because the page doesn’t load, that becomes to a problem. I deleted your lower case l aircraft.

I also accidently deleted the performance data for all of your aircraft. :blush: Please be so kind as to reenter it for your Sundowner. Once you’ve done that, please try to plan another flight an note the time if you receive an error. If you enter performance a multiple altitudes and weights it’s more likely to work than if you only enter performance at one.


#6

No problems reentering data, may that be the worst of the problems. :slight_smile: I was able to edit my newly created performance entries, so there is progress.

I used 7000 as the altitude for all performance fields climb enroute and descent and filled in the appropriate burn rates.

Still getting service errors as of 5:45 p.m. central time.

If I understand the “shared concept” I likey I likey using shared performance data for a type of aircraft (new fields that I see ready for implementation?)

EDITED

Mark,

Give me a couple of hours (about to eat dinner!), I think the problem is in my entries. Played a little bit since my original post and I think having values the same may be my problem. I reentered new data with different values and I did get an edit showing max weight issues so I need to scrutinize what I put in.


#7

Mark,

Still get service error as of 6:55 give or take.

Reason I had asked to “hold the presses” was that I did get an edit saying I had “overweight issues” (cant remember the exact error), so I figured the flight planner didn’t like the weight values.

The following is what I put in for my performance which makes logical sense based on chronological order of climb cruise and descent. As you suggested, I put different altitudes and weights (didn’t do that earlier but would have had I read carefully) :blush:


#8

As I was leaving the office I found out that rate-based descent tables aren’t working at the moment. I’ll let you know when it should be working (now that you have the performance data in, I can test myself).


#9

How about validation check for “blank fields” upon submission. When I click submit, if I leave a field blank, a prompt comes up saying complete such and such field where I click OK, fill in the fields and click submit to preceed to the next page? An example of what I am talking about, if you log on DUAT, file a flight plan, and and leave the fuel field blank, you get a dialogue box that says to fill that field in after clicking on submit request.

Will this become a problem for those coastal folks that depart from low MSL levels and would they would have to modify the profiles before creating a flight plan or embarking on multi leg trips?

I.E I leave Madison MS to Beckley WV on to Westminster MD.

On my departure out of Beckley to Westminster, the field elevation would be 2900 (give or take) yet my aircraft profile would still be 1000.


#10

Good idea, I’ll put it on the todo list.

We’ve fixed it so it will automatically move the minimum cruise altitude up to the elevation of the origin or destination (whichever is higher) after you hit submit.

I just successfully planned a flight KSBA-KLAS with your aircraft, so give it a whirl and let us know how it goes.

I’d encourage you to enter more performance data for your Sundowner for other altitudes and weights. It will make our calculations more accurate and probably work with fewer errors. :slight_smile:


#11

:smiley: :smiley: One complaint! :smiley: :smiley:

TOOO EASY!

I have to cancel my erroneously filed flight plan!

When I clicked plan flight, view navigation file flight plan, I didn’t realize it would send it to the FAA. (may want to alert the first time users that clicking the button will file the plan “without delay”)

I was anticipating it to come in stages, plan flight, view navigation and then are you sure you want to file scenario.

Couple of thoughts comes to mind.

Will there be a way to print the filed plan? Things happened so quickly, that I didn’t think to look for that.

Put a button on flightaware.com/flightplan/navlog.rvt to file the flight plan. As it exists, I have to use the back button and that may cause problems with cached pages?

Love the animated graphic hold as published.

Did I say too easy!

Will play a little more in a bit but all problems encountered earlier appear to be fixed. :smiley:


#12

If you click the first button (Plan Flight / View Navigation Log) it will just show you the navlog in a normal FlightAware page.
If you fill out the additional info (FOB, SOB, etc) and click the second button (Plan Flight / View Navigation Log / FILE IFR WITH FAA) it will file and show you a printable navlog (no Flightaware header).

If you do accidentally file and it’s more than 2 hours before departure time, you can go here to cancel your flight.

We want to keep the file button where it is instead of on the navlog so people don’t forget to file.


#13

Yes, cancelling was easy enough, I had pushed three hours ahead and cancel button showed up in my manage flights as regularily scheduled.

Fully understand. I would just like to view the nav log FIRST before filing the flight plan.

In its current setup, I cannot do that and I lose my input values of the flight plan if I only view the navlog and use the browser back button. Not a real big deal re-entering the data, but more convenient without using the back button.

Maybe the ability to save the above values (passengers, fuel as default)

Maybe a file flight plan button on both pages would help out???

Just curious as I did a side by side comparison with Flight Aware, DUAT and AOPA flight planner using both GPS direct and airways from KMBO to KEKY and came up with the following

Flight Aware

DUAT

AOPA

I had copied and pasted the routing from FA to DUAT and was 6 minutes shorter for both airways and GPS direct on FA when comparing FA to DUATS and FA was 5 minutes shorter for GPS direct when comparing FA to AOPA.

I kinda toss AOPA for comparing airways since I don’t have the option of selecting them, but as you can see from the above, AOPA was quite a bit longer (understandable due to different fixes / routing)

Performance values I double checked in all three places and they all match.

Any idea why FA would be 6 minutes shorter for a 1 1/2 flight?

Found a potential bug…

I inadvertently filed another flight plan at 20:40 CDT. I think this happened when I used the back button and I was playing with the plan flight view nav log. What I think may have happened is I backed even further to the page where I submitted the flight plan and it resubmitted it. Not quite sure of the sequence, but I sure knew not to click on that file flight plan.

Cancel flight plan came to the rescue! :smiley:

Is there a plan to use a “previously filed” flight with the ability to retrieve it, and edit fields for a flight today on flightaware.com/flightplan/manage/flights ?

I have this set up in DUAT where I click on edit on a previously filed flight plan, update time, fuel and related values and resubmit.


#14

Hi,
When I try to enter data for a pilot I get a message that reads:

Line 98
Error: ‘document.edit_pilot.id’ is null or not an object

Am I doing something wrong?


#15

No – this is fixed now.


#16

I’m having similar problems as the above poster. I can’t delete profiles and some profiles might have too many data blocks which prevents ANY from showing. Is there a maximum number of altitudes or weights? If sh=o it should be labeled so as to prevent this problem inteh future.


#17

Thanks…seemed to work fine.


#18

If you click the first button (Plan Flight / View Navigation Log) it will just show you the navlog in a normal FlightAware page.

If you fill out the additional info (FOB, SOB, etc) and click the second button (Plan Flight / View Navigation Log / FILE IFR WITH FAA) it will file and show you a printable navlog (no Flightaware header).

I fill in the additional info (FOB,SOB, etc.) and click the FIRST button and it files the FP. It should not do that.

If the button action is going to be based on what fields are entered you better tell users. And there is nothing that tells the user that the first button works without the additional info being provided.

You do not do a good job of telling the user which fields are required and which are optional and what happens if fields are not completed.


#19

You are not alone ajw22.

Just tested and it sure did the same thing for me. Definate bug on that page.

I just went back and cancelled mine (I had clicked three hours in advance)

Still beta of course, so keep that in mind. :wink:

Still think viewing the nav log before filing is critical. Kinda putting the cart before the horse reviewing that Nav log after filing.

FA is planning to add to their “to do list” in getting prompts for mandatory fields. See my suggestion about validation checks in this thread.


#20

Still beta of course, so keep that in mind.

Seems more like alpha to me when basic functions don’t work. But I am trying to be constructive and helpful.

Still think viewing the nav log before filing is critical.

I agree.

There also needs to be a way to edit the selected route. This is often needed to insert the first fix or edit the departure procedure.