Arrivals for Palm Springs

Aviation General Aviation
1

Hi Folks:

What is the difference between the CLOWD ONE and SBONO ONE arrivals for Palm Springs (KPSP)? I might have missed something, but I don’t see any obvious differences :smiley:

emb145

2

flightaware.com/resources/airpor … /SBONO+ONE
flightaware.com/resources/airpor … /CLOWD+ONE

Compare the two images side by side; it’s pretty subtle, but there are differences around the PSP/TRM/CLOWD triangle.

3

Looks like the SBONO arrival feeds the RNAV 13 approaches while the CLOWD feeds the TRM VOR for the RNAV 31 or VOR 31 approaches.

Whatever RNAV is :smiley:

John

4

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

5

Thanks for the help. I see it now! It’s just not too clear. If I am flying from the west, i.e. LAX, and I expect runway 31 I guess I would choose the CLOWD ONE arrival. What transition would I select? It think the DECAS transition would be appropriate, but is that what really happens? Seems like way out of the way.

emb145

6

In that case the clearance you receive would be whatever transition they wanted you on. If the runways or anything changes, ATC will issue you a re-route while enroute.

7

You don’t actually file a STAR since you don’t know for sure which runway is in use, just file to the nearest IAF or initial point on a STAR if there is a STAR on your route, TRM would be my choice coming from the LA basin. TRM is an IAF, it also just happens to be the end of the CLOWD STAR which is immaterial coming from the west. In this case you won’t fly a STAR, instead you will go from enroute straight to an approach.
If you are coming from the east, say over Needles just file the flight plan to EED. That’s it, end of route. As cfijames says the appropriate STAR/transition will be issued by ATC prior to your getting there.

John

8

This isn’t right. You can still file a STAR to an airport without knowing the runway in use. Reference LAS right now. You’ll still see routes with GRNPA1 filed, though I can guarantee that the runway that STAR feeds (19L/R) are not in use. Same with those filing any of the arrivals going to 25L. Runways 1L/R are in use and are going to be the primary runways until May.

ATC won’t assign the STAR; it is up to the company to file it, and if it can’t be accommodated, vectors to the runway in use will be used.

BL.

9

File a STAR (or DP for that matter) if you want. ATC will ultimately decide and can/will assign or change one to suit their purpose.

Case and point: Wednesday I went from MCO to FLL. MCO was conducting south flow and FLL was conducting east flow. I filed direct to SWAGS and the SWAGS1 arrival, which brings you in from the NW perfectly for a KFLL east flow. My clearance was rwy heading (180) to 5000’ (essentially the ORL8 DP) SWAGS.SWAGS1 as filed… On departure I’m given a 140 heading, and two controllers later I’m out over the ocean when I’m cleared direct FATHR and the FISEL1 to FLL. The FISEL takes you out over the ocean paralleling the coast and comes back in on a downwind to the rwy 9’s. Making for a longer and illogical route.

Case two: Departing DAL to PHX… As we are RNAV/RNP I file for the KOOLY (RNAV) arrival for PHX. My clearance is assigned the SUNNS (standard) arrival…despite the NOTAM that RNAV/RNP aircraft are to file RNAV STARs and DPs. I ask the clearance delivery controller what’s up with that? I can hear the deer in the headlights stare… :unamused: “Nevermind” I said. Out over west Texas, ZFW advises an ammendment to our route and gives us the SUNNS. I ask the controller “that as a RNAV/RNP aircraft aren’t we supposed to be flying RNAV procedures per the NOTAM?” He responds; “I understand your point but that’s what the computer wants.” On we go… I check in with ZAB and I’m advised “Nxxxxx ammendment to your route, advise ready to copy.” :confused: “You’re cleared PHX via…KOOLY1 arrival.” :angry:

And at LAS, if you don’t file a DP, the clearance delivery controller will get testy and I’ve heard them tell pilots to go and refile using a DP. :open_mouth: When that happened to me the first time I got the hint, regardless of the fact that it makes no sense. Because they’ll give you what they want anyway. :unamused:

So, while it is a good idea to file a STAR/DP…it’s like Forrest and his box of chocolates when it comes to ATC.

10

And then…
There places like KSAN where the BARET4 arrival feeds both 27 and 9, so if you’re coming from the east or northeast, BARET4 is to be expected. That is, until you contact SoCal on 124.35 and he gives you direct SWATT to join the loc when 27 is active… :unamused:
Also, the Border5 DP departing east/northeast uses both 9 and 27.

11

The next AIRAC cycle coming into effect on the 20th is going to make SAN really interesting…

BL.