Need help with big picture


I want to fly IFR at <18000 feet, and I want to use the L charts and intercepts to improve my navigating skills from KPHX to KLAX.

Im using the Departure route out of KPHX called BUCKEYE TWO DEPARTURE, which gets me to either PALMDALE (PMD) or PALM SPRINGS (PSP).

Then using arrival procedure for KLAX called BASET THREE ARRIVAL to KLAX from PEACH SPRINGS (PGS) or TWENTYNINE PALMS (TNP) or,

arrival procedure CIVET FIVE ARRIVAL to KLAX from PEACH SPRINGS (PGS) or HECTOR (HEC) or,




why dont departure and arrival procedures use the same points


when I leave a departure procedure can I arbitrarily jump to the next arrival procedure and create my own route?
what do I do if I were to fly from 2 large airports that are not near each other, say KDFW to KLAX?
incase im too new and not asking the right question, feel free to ask and answer the question I should be asking.


Wow, the regionals really have dropped their hiring standards…


What type of aircraft?


why dont departure and arrival procedures use the same points?

Not all aircraft leaving PHX headed west are landing at LAX. For instance ONT has an arrival that uses PSP.


well i know that but none of the arrivals or departures share even 1 common VOR to navigate with, i was thinking they dont over lap on purpose, yes cessna.

wht does regionals have to do with me, im a student pilot not a real pilot, and i bet you cant start an IV as good as i can.


Sorry MeekRN, but you’d be better off with a different plan. You’ll most likely never fly a full arrival procedure into LAX in a Cessna single anyway. Too busy of a place… However, BXK2.BXK (V?) TNP.PDZ4 is the typical route if LAX is landing west. If east it’s the SEAVU2.


MeekRN, that was a comment on the fact that the regionals are hiring guys with not much more experience in the cockpit than you have. Not an insult, just a little humor…To answer the questions as to routing after the departure procedure, you could either file direct from VOR to VOR along the route you chose or, you could find the closest airway and transition to that from a VOR or intersection on that airway. Example:


BTW, I bet I intubate better than you! 16 years as a paramedic, I’ll go head to head with you… :wink:


He’s right. Plus you can flt plan the departures and arrival BUT you might not get them. Expect vectors to keep you out of the way of faster traffic.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE RADIO so you don’t end up getting yelled at


Student pilots are real pilots as far as I know (providing of course you are piloting a real airplane and not MSFS simming).

With that caveat behind, assuming you are a student pilot and just working on your VFR training, why clutter up your brains with DP’s and STARS as you won’t use them in your VFR training. You need to keep your eyes outside the window and improve on your ground referencing navigation.

Students can’t fly in Bravo (where the majority of STAR and DPS are) without an endorsement and good chance you will fly vectors or some type of VFR corrider. You would / should be identifying yourself as a student pilot so ATC can work with you. I don’t think ATC will expect you to fly a STAR or DP.

If it’s IFR that you are in student status, I don’t have STAR or DP experience, but from what I understand, that procedure may not be what you expect especially if the winds change, so flexibility would be the suggested word of the day.

As far as the medical stuff, best I can say is I gave myself self injections of levonox in my stomach about 7 months ago :wink:


In the more congested areas, especially like NYC or LAX, paying attention is no guarantee that you won’t get yelled at anyway!


WORD :exclamation:


NYC airspace and Washington Center are the worst. NO MANNERS at all. But then again I’ve heard several “Professional” pilots treat them with no manners also


That’s just not true. There are plenty of great controllers at New York and Washington, very professional and just as cool as a cucumber when they’re absolutely slammed. There are rude folks everywhere, even in Florida…


Agree. And I would add in Potomac approach in the great controllers handling a bumbling idiot like myself trying to pick up an IFR clearance in the air while trying to thread the ADIZ and expanded P40 for my westbound leg from Westminster MD to Beckley WV.

Bad enough the CD frequency was out of service on the ground and I didn’t know it, but I called up on a wrong frequency. They were wonderful in getting me straight during morning rush hour.

As long as controllers and pilots are human, there will be bad days, just one hopes it doesn’t come out on the airways, but hey, we are human! :wink:

Those bad days for a few shouldn’t be judgment for all.


I also said that there are RUDE “PROFESSIONAL” PILOTS that treat the controllers with no respect. I covered my bases on that one.


No, no, I am in total agreement on that. There seems to be no shortage of a##holes to go around on either side of the mic. I just think that blanket statements shouldn’t be made. And yes, Potomac is awesome, as are Cairns approach and Tampa approach. Those guys are like gods when it comes to getting you through the gaps in the boomers.


I personally believe that ALL blanket statements are wrong. :laughing:


I personally believe that U.S. Americans don’t have maps…
(31,000,000 hits and goin’ strong)