AMR , UAUA, DAL stocks hammered today


AMR down 24.15%
UAUA down 29.5%
DAL down 16.38%

$134/bbl crude killing all airlines, LCC holding up better, but legacies getting killed. Looks like we may add a few names to the list of the defunct. Industry has gone to hell, bring back fare regulation before it’s too late!


If anything, fares are NOT going up as fast as
the oil prices that’s the point of why the industry
is seeing is operating profits snatched away. If you
want to do something for the industry to hold down fares
either give customers vouchers for free air travel or give
the airline jet fuel credits to hold down their fuel costs. Putting
a cap on air fares will ground this country’s flights in a big
hurry in the oil market that we’re in.


My point was to regulate fares so as to insure a profit (not a cap). But nobody wants to face that. Higher fares? Thats un-American.


Oh yeah, that’s so the American way, legislate profits for corporations.

I’ll stop now before I become abusive.


And the government is so good at running other things efficiently . . .


The airlines are very undervalued right now because investors have a herd-like mentality. Fuel went up what maybe 2-3% at most (and that’s a big increase for one day) yet the stocks take 15%-25% hits? That’s ludicrous and shows how investors have no clue what they’re doing.

I think with their values so depressed this is a prime time to take a major airline private through and LBO so they don’t have to deal with this BS.




You didn’t hear what Gerard Arpey said did you:


Yes, I did hear that.

The fact that investors would react so strongly to something somebody said rather than the actual numbers proves my point that they behave like a mindless herd that has no clue what it’s doing or where it’s going.


By all means, become abusive, I can take it. But perhaps I didn’t make my point.

I think the current system is a complete failure. When these companies go bust, they break unions and clean out employees and shareholders. Employees lose pensions, benefits and some lose jobs. BK protects one airline at the expense of others, putting more pressure on already stressed balance sheets. The worst part is the degredation of service. Flying is like a bus ride at FL350.

So I say whats wrong with regulation. Issue a select number of licenses to commercial carriers. Regulate employee compensation, safety, fares and profit margins. Maybe we will have a system that works for all involved, passengers, employees, debtholders, and shareholders.

We have all been brainwashed by the Wal-Mart and Home Cheapo’s of the world, that cheaper is better. Maybe it’s time for some changes. After all, you get what you pay for, right?


You should be happy and go long the airlines on such a day. Good luck, you’re gonna need it, the bleeding has just begun.

EDIT: BTW, the actual numbers are way worse than the words that he spoke. AMR is in deep s**t, Arpey is no fool, oil is going to $150, and he know that will kill AMR and most other airlines, when combined with a weakening US economy, can you say bankruptcy


The forum software won’t accept characters that aren’t found on a standard 104 key US English keyboard.

If you’d like a better seat and service, it’s readily available.

Safety is already regulated, and I don’t think many people disagree with the way it’s done; the NTSB has a pretty positive “rating” from the GAO and the general public.

Why is government fiat a desirable way to determine fares, wages, and returns on investment? Airlines will continue to go out of business (shareholders lose their investment, customers lose their purchases, employees lose their job) if they can’t compete in the market, just like most other businesses in most other industries.


OK, so all the airlines go bankrupt?

We all know that air transport won’t magically disappear because oil got too expensive.

There is no “excess capacity” - you can read idiot writers for USA Today or the Chicago Tribune all you want, but they have no clue about the realities of the airline industry.

If there was regulation 50% of the flights (and routes) you see today would disappear. Either that or fares would quadruple. That’s not better for the employees or the customers.

You can wax poetic about how nice flying was during regulation in the 60’s and 70’s. News flash - it’s not the 70’s anymore. The type of industry safeguards in place, while acceptable to the customer and airlines then, simply wouldn’t work anymore.

This is a price bubble with fuel caused by hedge funds manipulating the price so that they can sell fuel hedges.


In case you weren’t paying attention, that has been tried in what was known as a centrally managed economy. China and Russia were both leaders in the field. However, even a superficial read of recent history will show you that economic ‘experiment’ was an abject failure and just about all of those centrally managed economies have moved to some form of decentralized capitalism. Adam Smith’s invisible hand can, as recent airline fortunes show well, be fairly harsh.


No! No! No!

Let the marketplace determine which airlines survive. If an airline goes belly up, then another one will take its place. If it starts charging fares that are absurd on a given route, another airline will come in and make the fares less absurd on the route.

It’s call capitalism and it does work, provide the government keeps it hands out of it.

I’m talking about economic regulation - not safety regulation. There is a need for the latter.


A union carpenter, plumber or electrician in NYC makes more than the average commercial pilot and has much better benefits. That makes no sense to me. Call me crazy, call me a commie, but I want my pilot highly trained, highly motivated and highly paid. Sorry.


I think with MY lack of knowledge in the above trades, the money vested in their expertise really is no different then a pilot.

Not sure if you would know how to wire electric lines, but what you don’t know, just like flying can kill ya! :open_mouth:


The current system is broken, I’m just floating the idea of how to fix it. I’m not suggesting a state run airline system. Just a little regulation to keep the greedy corporations from bleeding the investors dry while lining thier own pockets at the expense of the public and thier work force. The middle class has been destroyed in the name of capitalism and no one cares.


Not saying those trades don’t deserve what they get, just that pilots should get more than they do.


No, I believe you made your point succinctly.

You believe the airlines are entitled to government intervention to prevent them from succumbing to the effects of years of poor management.

Please point to the portion of the Constitution where that protection is spelled out.