What has happened to our buisness ?
Just what are you talking about?
Pilots are not a “business.” Professional pilots have a job or career in business.
Not sure where you have been, but super low pay, and regular beatings by management have been the standard for years. I really doubt the public’s realization that the co-pilot of Colgan 3407’s pay was below poverty wage will have any influence on the industry or pay. If anything it will get worse, by making the pilot live where they are based.
As long as pilots are willing to work for nothing I have to agree with you.
I guess you could say you get what you pay for.
Move to the People’s Republic of Washington where minimum wage is $8.55 and the runways are paved with gold.
That’s good. Do you mean the Democratic People’s Republic of Washington? Not to be confused with our Asian brothers.
wazzu90 is only joking. In the Tri-Cities area, a lot of us joke that one must either have a job at Hanford or be a registered purebred chickenhawk…
If you mow lawns in the right neighborhoods you could make double or triple that. That pretty sad that people get paid more money to drive lawn mowers than planes.
As much as I think the pay rate is low (and that for very senior captains way too high), it all boils down to this: no one forces a person to become a pilot. Unfortunately, there’s a matter of supply and demand. There’s more supply (i.e. excess of pilots) than demand (i.e. airline openings for pilots). Therefore, the pay for pilots starting will be low.
This reminds me of a posting I made a couple of years ago. There’s also the matter of people expecting to be made top dollar as soon as they start working at a company. That just ain’t going to happen, no matter what industry you start out with.
Are you in the biz?
dami, I hate to disagree with you but this goes hand and hand about a topic I had started regarding seniority and pay…if a person puts their time into a company and in this case we are on the airline side, the pay should reflect time in service. When a company sets and agrees to a pay rate and scale it is not wrong for people to expect to be paid based on the agreements. Yes a lot of airlines in the past few years have shut down and put an excess of crew in the market…I don’t know why they insist year over year in dropping the wage rates. As I said in another post kids will always grow up wanting to fly as a pilot, it just isn’t going to be the glitzy pay rate they imagined in their dream. I do agree with your last point about putting in the time…if you do then you should get a good paycheck to reflect that.
Pilot salaries are disgusting and will most likely get worse.
Lower standards for hiring.
Unions pretty much busted or emasculated.
Cheap public wants to pay lowest price possible (Walmartization).
What’s needed is a good strong union.
Raise the standards for hiring.
And it will never happen.
We have turned pilots from heros of the sky into flying bus drivers.
Pity, welcome to the 21st century.
PS No offense to the bus drivers out there, we all gotta be somewhere.
Well said sir…and from a non-pilot I like your new term Walmartization.
This pic fits the discussion at hand:
[airliners.net/photo/Untitled … 0038918/M/](http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(Greyhound-Air/Boeing-727-227-Adv/0038918/M/)
Deef1999: So you saying if the standards are risen for airline pilots there will never again be an accident like the Dash 8 in Buffalo? I don’t think so.
Regulating fares will not increase airline safety. Regulating fares will increase prices for the consumer and make a bad situation worse.
IADFXMD11HVY: You do know that Greyhound in Canada started their own airline? It didn’t work out.
“Walmartization” is not a new term coined by Deef1999 - it’s been around for years.
ok in order:
Guessed by the a/c pic…and believe I heard about it over a chuckle once upon a time.
and no I had never seen it before deef said it… even with the internet I miss things.
What I am saying is you get what you pay for. As a consumer and as an airline. If you pay poor wages, you will not get the best workers. If you pay well, the cream will rise to the top and you will attract the best people. As a customer I want the best trained, highest scoring, smartest, most skilled pilot they can find…not the lowest bid.
As for ticket prices, I also believe a little more money will go a long way. Better service, IFE, food, more comfy seats and maybe more legroom. What if lets say a ticket from JFK to PBI were $399 round trip (regulated no more no less) and all airlines were on a level playing field. Then service would be the deciding factor.
Lets also say that a pilot would be paid a minimum salary ($60K to start and get raises based on seniority, type ratings, rank and performance, full benefits, solid retirement). All airlines must adhere to the standards. Why would this be a bad thing (please don’t spew the free market crap). The current system is broken. Airlines losing money and the service sucks. And yeah, I know WN makes money, but for how much longer in this economy.
My bottom line is safety for my family and myself and I don’t feel safe with that Colgan crew from Beefalo. I am also willing to pay for it, not many are.
At one time, as you know, airlines were heavily regulated when it came to the routes they could fly and the fares they could charge. As a a result, someone would pick airline A over airline B because A had better service than B. That still did not guarantee the airline would be profitable.
Again, pay is not directly related to how good a pilot is. Some of the worse accidents were by pilots who had been flying for decades (e.g. Tenerife KLM/Pan Am accident).
As far as I know, airlines have never had their wages regulated by the government when it came to how much to pay.
Why would it be bad to make airlines apply standards such as raises, retirement, etc? If you are going to tie my hands by saying I can’t mention the free market (which ain’t crap) then I really can’t give an answer.
That accident had many contributing factors, such as heavy fog and IIRC a language issue. In the end 500+ people died and you are correct to point out thier experience. However, that logic doesnt wash with me. Obviously over time, statisics will bear out that experience=safety. That is true in most trades and professions.
I’m not against free markets, but this industry needs more stability.