Will Delta Eventually Order More Boeing Planes?


#1

Hello,

I am sort of new to the FlightAware Discussion page. :smiley:

I have been thinking about this for a while now. I was very surprised to read the news that Delta went 25 Airbus A330-900neos and Airbus A350-900s for a fleet renewal. That was a huge loss for Boeing. But what is making me wonder is if Boeing will give Delta a good deal on new airplanes, like the Boeing 777X, 787-9 or -10, or even the 737MAX.

If Boeing offers Delta a good deal, would you believe that Delta would take it? And if so, what aircraft do you think they will order? The 777X, 787, or the 737MAX?

Thanks!


#2

Welcome! :slight_smile:

I have been thinking about this for a while now. I was very surprised to read the news that Delta went 25 Airbus A330-900neos and Airbus A350-900s for a fleet renewal. That was a huge loss for Boeing. But what is making me wonder is if Boeing will give Delta a good deal on new airplanes, like the Boeing 777X, 787-9 or -10, or even the 737MAX.

If Boeing offers Delta a good deal, would you believe that Delta would take it? And if so, what aircraft do you think they will order? The 777X, 787, or the 737MAX?

Thanks!

I’d venture to say no.

The reason for this being the fact that they still have all of the training and cross training they would have to do with both DAL and NWA pilots. Keep in mind that at the time of the DAL/NWA merger, NWA was beginning to phase out the B727, DC9, DC10, and MD80 aircrafts from their fleet, as they had nearly 30 A320s in use with another 70 coming in, plus 20 A330s. Those are still fairly new aircraft (especially the A330). It would be more of a seamless shift to the A339 and A350 as far as pilot and maintenance crew training goes than to drop the entire lot for Boeing aircraft.

This isn’t even taking into account fuel costs, passenger yield, ROI, etc. A lot more going on at play here than just the typical Airbus v. Boeing war.

BL.


#3

Keep in mind that at the time of the DAL/NWA merger, NWA was beginning to phase out the B727, DC9, DC10, and MD80 aircrafts from their fleet, as they had nearly 30 A320s in use with another 70 coming in, plus 20 A330s. Those are still fairly new aircraft (especially the A330).

At the time of the DAL/NWA merger (announced 2008) NWA had phased out all 727s, DC10s and MD80s. All of the A320s, A319s and A330s had been in service with NWA for at least few years before the merger, though Delta has since ordered more A330s. Older A320s (a few arrived before 1990) will be replaced with incoming 737-900ERs.

The reason for this being the fact that they still have all of the training and cross training they would have to do with both DAL and NWA pilots. It would be more of a seamless shift to the A339 and A350 as far as pilot and maintenance crew training goes than to drop the entire lot for Boeing aircraft.

Delta would not “drop the entire lot;” in fact, all but 158 of the 773 aircraft in Delta’s fleet are Boeing/McDonnell Douglas. The Airbus planes serve a purpose and the recent orders have resulted from the fact that the manufacturer’s aircraft are the best fit for Delta’s future strategy. Pilot training would be a very small factor in this decision.

This isn’t even taking into account fuel costs, passenger yield, ROI, etc.

These, among others, are the primary considerations for an airline when buying aircraft.


#4

I heard they got all of the 717s from Airtran. Whether that is true or not idk.


#5

This is true, all 88 717s that Delta has or will receive have come from AirTran.


#6

Delta is expanding globally and really fast. dont be surprised if they get A388s and A350s here in the next 5-10 years


#7

Delta is expanding globally and really fast. dont be surprised if they get A388s and A350s here in the next 5-10 years.

Delta already has 25 A350s on order. Due to capacity control measures, the A380 would be unlikely. Delta will replace its 747s with smaller widebodies.


#8

Technically, from Southwest Airlines.


#9

yeah i personally think Southwest should stay domestic in the US and not fly out because tehy will and could get crumbled by Delta, American, United, etc,.(the larger airlines)


#10

I’m certain heads of all the major airlines pore over the Flightaware forums searching for good business advice.


#11

If you noticed, they are staying domestic. :slight_smile:

the only places where they have expanded to internationally were the destinations already being served by TRS.

The only place they are missing returning service, is to PHNL, from their buyout of ATA. They still haven’t replaced that route, which was rather lucrative from the destinations they served, plus gave HAL and AAH competition out of KLAS.

However, I would have to say that SWA possibly serving TNCM would be nice. :wink:

Back to DAL. Unless KBOS (which I believe they are now), KMSP, and KSLC get some major upgrades going (KJFK, KLAX, and KATL should already be set), we just don’t have the infrastructure to support the A380. That is how far behind the USA is on its airport infrastructure.

BL.

BL.


#12

Actually, Southwest is going to add Belize, Puerto Vallarta, and San Jose, Costa Rica from Houston once the feds approve the routes (along with Cancun, Cabo, and Mexico City).


#13

Oh, good one! :imp: :stuck_out_tongue: 8)


#14

Very interesting. MZBZ service… to compete with UAL?

MMPR is from KSNA… Customs isn’t located at that airport, so would they have to come down from LAX or ONT to meet the flight?

MROC is coming from KBWI. I definitely don’t see the link there, unless it is to compete with UAL’s service from KIAD.

Not sure of the moves SWA is making here…

BL.


#15

The Houston International routes are tied to the new terminal that SWA will have 4 out of the 5 gates in. I “bug” SWA a lot about service because, well, to get to CUN or SJD from TUL, I have to go through either DEN or MDW. Normally, I have no problem with that, except I am planning a trip to PVR or CUN during Christmas this year and I really don’t want to go through those two in December. Adding HOU gives SWA a southern “launch point” from the middle of the country, less prone to crappy weather in the winter. SWA is also launching service from HOU to Aruba on May 7. SWA is also looking at the feasibility of CZM and competing with AA and UA in that market if they can justify it, even if just seasonal service since the ferry from Cancun to Cozumel, plus taxi to resort is starting to get expensive from talking to people who had to do it last time I was in Cozumel (this past June).

One thing I have heard from a family friend who is an Airport Manager is SWA is rumored to be eyeballing HNL from the LA and SFO area.


#16

This makes a lot more sense now. I didn’t take into account that HOU does have customs at the field, so that would basically bring the competition to UAL/COA at IAH.

One thing I have heard from a family friend who is an Airport Manager is SWA is rumored to be eyeballing HNL from the LA and SFO area.

This is the same exact thing that AAH did when they were running passenger service from HNL to the mainland. They served OAK and SNA (go figure with SWA :wink: ), and with SNA, they continued the service to LAS. So I can see this happening easily, especially with the -700s, as that’s what AAH used.

I’m still trying to figure out how they’d make Mexico work, as they’d have the same problem that California Air would have with them operating out of CRQ: unless Mexico operates a customs pre-clearance (like CYVR does to the US), Customs would have to make the drive down from LAX/LGB/ONT, or up from SAN to greet the plane before deplaning; with LGB being the more likely candidate.

BL.


#17

I was wondering that as well after I noticed that they do fly SNA-SJD, but I did find this on the SNA website. :

ARRIVALS
After completing the federal inspection
process, passengers exit to the International
Arrivals Area in Terminal C on the Arrival
(lower) Level. Global Entry is available at
John Wayne Airport for pre-approved
passengers. Visit www.globalentry.gov for
more information

.

It also shows that Baggage Claim 7 is in a secure area right next to the USCBP area. Good to know…


#18

They could operate as airlines in the past have. There’s no problem operating to Mexico from CRQ nonstop. On the return the aircraft would stop at an airport (e.g. SAN) that does have customs. Then it would continue back to CRQ.

I don’t know if there are any airports in Mexico where you can pre-clear on flights to the USA. Don’t have time right now to research it, either, right now.


#19

there is a separate customs area at CRQ, which is why California Air was going to be able to run their service from there; however a separate user fee would apply for that.

There aren’t any customs operations at SNA at all, so like at KSBD, which also has no customs operations there, all that would be required is for customs to be there to greet the aircraft prior to deplaning for them to do their inspections. Since the closest customs operations to SNA is at LGB, the customs team would have to make the drive down to greet the aircraft.

Yes, it would be easier to base customs at SNA and turn it into an international airport, but that would make the LA basin have 7 bases alone (ONT, BUR, SMO, LAX, LGB, CRQ, SAN), with those at BUR, LGB and ONT having to make the drive out to SNA, SBD and VNY to perform inspections there. That’s a lot of customs.

Also, having it stop at SAN would then continue for another 10 minutes to SNA would seem a bit overkill, no?

I don’t know if there are any airports in Mexico where you can pre-clear on flights to the USA. Don’t have time right now to research it, either, right now.

I don’t think they do either, but that was the only thing I could think of before seeing the above mentioned special gate and baggage area for cleared baggage. I was thinking that if it worked for Canada, it could work for Mexico as well.

BL.


#20

Uh…did you guys miss my post showing that SNA does now have customs operations? What am I? Chopped liver? :laughing:

Anyway, here is SWA’s filing with the USDOT.

regulations.gov/#!documentDe … -0222-0001

Interesting read. I didn’t know only 2 US airlines could serve Mexico from a specific city. Looks like SWA is going after UA on this one.