Are flight schools required to adhere to manufacturer’s TBO?
Would it be poor form to ask to inspect maintenance logs before using their aircraft?
Yes- and HELL YES.
Hmmm, what’s the FAR?
100 Hr inspections if they’re part 91
TBO is for everyone. it’s not a “suggestion” if you do an annual and the engine is past TBO the AC can’t be returned t service.
I don’t remember the FAR’s and I’m too old and lazy to be chasing it down for you. If you really need to know pick up a FAR/AIM and start reading.
Engine TBO is a recommendation for us aircraft owners. It’s not required and I know people who are able to exceed TBO with good compression and oil analysis by 300 or 400 hours.
No.
Since the PIC is responsible for checking the logs I would say it’s the smart thing to do.
TBO is not a requirement for everyone, it is a recommendation for part 91 aircraft, not a requirement. I know about the 100 hour requirement for flight schools, that is not relevant to TBO only annuals.
I have looked at the FARs and can’t find the answer. That’s why I tried to get someone who may know to reply.
Thank you Fholbert. You answered that in a very professional manner, unlike some others. I thought the answer was no and suspected that they are exempt because they do 100 hour inspections.
There used to be a big flight school that operated out of Brackett Airport in La Verne CA. Students arrived by the bus load from other countries and locals stayed far, far away.
They had a PA-28-181 make an off airport landing when the engine came apart. Just over 4100 hours SMOH, TBO is 2000. WOW!!!
I know of a school currently flying 152s. I wanted to rent one and when I looked them over they were so shabby that I asked about overhauls and was treated like a criminal. I said no thanks and later found out that the engines were in the 4000 hour range.
I know you can extend a TBO for hours if you know what to look for and take care of and use the engine on a regular basis, but 4000 hours is asking too much, in my opinion.
Flight schools including Part 141 schools are required to follow maintenance requirements under Subpart E of Part 91. That being said…TBO is an engine manufacturer’s recommendation only, not an absolute. Further guidance for TBO of a particular engine make/model can be found in that engine’s maintenance manual. Whether an engine makes TBO or not is subject to many things…not least of which is how that engine is operated. Usually, aircraft used for instruction do not make TBO due to the harsher use that they are subjected to.
Not at all! It’s your money and your well being that’s involved. There should be no hesitation in researching how an aircraft that you’re going to fly in has been maintained. Just as you should look into the school’s insurance coverages. It’s all part of risk management.
Yes you can and should ask. I’ve heard of FBO’s doing a top overhaul at every other TBO. In most cases, a training plane gets a lot of use, therefore it is more reliable than a plane that hardly gets used. In terms of calender time (months/years), a training plane see’s the mechanic much more frequently than a private plane that hardly get’s flown. An engine or any other machine is more reliable if its used more, not less. The oil on a training plane might be changed every month whereas a private plane might be sitting there (cooking and freezing) for a year. Don’t mistake a tattered seat cover for an unreliable plane.
An engine or any other machine is more reliable if its used more, not less. The oil on a training plane might be changed every month whereas a private plane might be sitting there (cooking and freezing) for a year. Don’t mistake a tattered seat cover for an unreliable plane.
So where should you draw the line on the limit of hours past TBO on a plane that you would feel comfortable in ? I agree that regular use is better, but is twice TBO just pushing your luck in a big way even if compressions, oil analysis, bore scopes etc etc are all good. Where would you draw the line?
As PIC **technically speaking **you are required to review the maintenance logs. Part of airworthiness is ensuring the plane has complied with mandatory AD’s.
If you operate IFR, you need to verify that the .411 and .413 checks were completed.
Annual completed is another thing.
Only place I know these three things would be documented are in the AC logs.
Now… in the real world, I will let you be the judge as to whether this happens. 
Lycoming and TCM both have service bulletins on this, I don’t know the SB numbers off hand, but I have seen both of them.
I don’t know of any flight schools that overhaul their engines at TBO just because. Most get extended by 200 hours or lots more. It’s amazing the difference between some engines, some last for hundreds of hours past TBO, and some just don’t make it anywhere close, or they have “progressive top” done. New cylinders every month.
Ask the flight school if they do 50 hour inspections, if they say no, take a second look at their engine times.
Agree with wazzu about the appearance, while that is extremely important, it is also extremely expensive to keep an airplane in pristine condition. Especially with a high usage rate.
In closing, it would be in proper form to check out the logs, but if you’ve never looked at logbooks before, remember, a lot of entries are made late on a Friday night so the airplane can fly on the weekend. So ask for help before discounting the school based on that alone.
50 hour inspections?
I know of 100 hour inspections and I was under the impression that those were mandatory?
If 50, what’s inspected that’s not during the 100 hour inspections?
In a training environment, a lot can happen in 50 hours. Some schools will do 50’s which is kind of like an oil change, with some extra servicing. Compression checks, and looking at high wear items so the 100 hour\annual is not a surprise.
Not a requirement, but it’s a pretty good way to keep the airplanes healthy.
VJ where are you located?
There is always the possibility of a progressive maintainence program, set though your friendly neighborhood FSDO. No two progressives are the same, the lead maintainence mechanic will work with the FSDO to establish what gets done at what time intervals, in the case of Where i learned there were 4, 50 hour “events” 4 events would satisfy an annual with no 100hr inspections rewuired, so then if the planes didnt see the shop four times in one year an annual would need to be met, since the planes fly about 150 plus a month its not a problem and actually ends up DECREASING a/c downtime so the planes can fly more.
Gotchya. Never heard of this til you mentioned this. I guess in a sense, I do the same with getting the A&P to do my oil change rather then me, but not as extensive as compression checks and the like.
Thanks ejericson for your insight. I am a believer that routine maintenance is the way to go and the small repairs made now sure prevent the larger repairs down the road.