FYI: Alternatives to Raspberry Pi for this hobby

Sure thing, no problem @prog Here’s a snapshot of my host usage.

thinuser@ThinAware:~$ cpufreq-info 
cpufrequtils 008: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to cpufreq@vger.kernel.org, please.
analyzing CPU 0:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 0
  maximum transition latency: 4.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.50 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.50 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 950 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: userspace, powersave, conservative, ondemand, performance, schedutil
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.50 GHz.
                  The governor "performance" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 1.50 GHz.
  cpufreq stats: 1.50 GHz:24.74%, 1.30 GHz:68.15%, 1.10 GHz:6.03%, 950 MHz:0.64%, 800 MHz:0.45%  (5028910)
analyzing CPU 1:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 1
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 1
  maximum transition latency: 4.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.50 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.50 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 950 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: userspace, powersave, conservative, ondemand, performance, schedutil
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.50 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 1.50 GHz.
  cpufreq stats: 1.50 GHz:22.67%, 1.30 GHz:69.11%, 1.10 GHz:6.96%, 950 MHz:0.71%, 800 MHz:0.55%  (4761597)
analyzing CPU 2:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 2
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 2
  maximum transition latency: 4.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.50 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.50 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 950 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: userspace, powersave, conservative, ondemand, performance, schedutil
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.50 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 1.50 GHz.
  cpufreq stats: 1.50 GHz:19.86%, 1.30 GHz:70.08%, 1.10 GHz:8.48%, 950 MHz:0.96%, 800 MHz:0.63%  (4651695)
analyzing CPU 3:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 3
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 3
  maximum transition latency: 4.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.50 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.50 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 950 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: userspace, powersave, conservative, ondemand, performance, schedutil
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.50 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 1.50 GHz.
  cpufreq stats: 1.50 GHz:18.58%, 1.30 GHz:69.67%, 1.10 GHz:9.79%, 950 MHz:1.23%, 800 MHz:0.74%  (4690837)
thinuser@ThinAware:~$ cat /etc/default/airspy_adsb
#
#gain is 0 to 21, each step of gain is equivalent to about 3dB, so reduce in increments of 1 if 21 is too high
GAIN= 19

#other options, append or remove from the line starting with OPTIONS=

OPTIONS= -v -t 90 -f 1 -w 5 -P 8 -C 90 -E 60 -e 10.0

#-C: CPU target in time percentage: 5 to 95 (adjust preamble filter while running to target CPU load)
#    a CPU target of 50 will use around 1 core completely on a multi-core system
#-e: preamble filter sensitivity, values: 1.0 to 60.0 (higher values increase CPU load and can improve detection)
#
#-E <max_preamble_filter>   Maximum preamble filter when using CPU target 0..60 (default: 60)
#-P <non_crc_preamble_filter> non-CRC Preamble filter: 1..preamble_filter
#   a low setting (8 or less) for -P can help when running higher -e or -C and encountering wrong altitudes or planes showing ground in VRS
#   note this will reduce the number of messages without CRC, for example altitude of MLAT aircraft
#   at the same time it will reduce CPU usage which can be used to get some more ADS-B position messages
#
#-w <whitelist_threshold>   Whitelist threshold: 1..10 (default: 5, lower not recommended due to bogus messages
#   threshold is not measured in message number, DF11 are worth 2, DF17 are worth 4 points
# -t <timeout>               Aircraft timeout in seconds for the whitelist (default: 60)
#
#-b: enable bias-t (50 mA max according to specification)
#
#-f: error correction bits, 0, 1 or 2: default and recommended is 1 for now.
#    (-f 2 is not recommended at the moment when feeding FlightAware and maybe others
#    as they have expressed concern about 2 bit error correction)
#
#-v: verbose, will provide messages to system log, read with this command: sudo journalctl -u airspy_adsb
#
#-x: dx mode, introduces bogus messages, improves reception of weak messages (opinion: not worth it)
#-p: bit packing, reduces USB bandwidth.

# please always check the following command for the options used by the current version:
# airspy_adsb -h

# sample rate can be 12 or 20, 20 may not work depending on the system
# when using the Airspy Mini a sample rate of 20 MSPS is not officially supported and an extra heat sink attached to the metal case or active ventilation are recommended
SAMPLE_RATE= 24

# when using a sample rate of 20, check if MLAT is stable!
# If MLAT isn't stable, 12 is the better choice and performance is similar in most cases.

#network settings
NET= -l 47787:beast -c 127.0.0.1:30004:beast

# stats.json
STATS= -S /run/airspy_adsb/stats.json

#don't change:
G=-g
M=-m

#processor affinity, for XU4 you can try 4-7, for the N2 try 2-5
AFFINITY="0-7"
thinuser@ThinAware:~$ 

htop snapshot:

nmon snapshot:

Looks like I have some linger 978 stuff on this box to clean up.

1 Like

If I understood correctly, total price was 27 (unit) + 13 (shipping) + 6 (wifi) = 46. At that price range IMHO it worth to look at Mac Mini 2014 4GB on ebay. For ~$70 you are getting much more powerful machine (that is overkill for this hobby). But it also can be used as generic Linux machine for other purposes.

Yeah, I don’t disagree with you @vkirienko and I think that’s the beauty of AhrBee’s post - the point being that there are a number of different hardware options available to us with used gear in this hobby; and far more available and reasonable pound for pound than the raspberry pi market at the moment. The unfortunate aspect is that the shipping costs are steep compared to the cost of the hardware itself.

In my case, the wifi was a totally unnecessary expenditure and an after-thought, but for <$10 I decided to add it - as the parts were readily available and new. Who knows how long they would continue to be, or how I’ll use this hardware in the future - but now it’s functionality I have for a couple of bucks. For my use case, it was certainly reasonable. I also went this HP Thin Client route as I already had 2-8gb sticks and a 240gb SSD out of an old laptop that I repurposed in these thin clients and they all work fantastic - not to mention the fact that I had good confidence with getting this all setup cleanly and with little heartache with the guides above. The RAM and SSD were not required for my ADSB setup, but it felt better than throwing them into the ewaste pile later.

Setting aside the wifi card, $40 for the T620 was a good deal for me in my situation. I can justify the $70 price range in my mind for something better considering the machine you get for the price, but others might not agree. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. That said and to illustrate your point, I did order a used HP T820 Thin Client (Intel i5 2.9Ghz Quad Core, 4gb, wifi, 16gb SSD, & active cooling) for $50 (+$20 shipping) yesterday. (We’ll see what it looks like when it gets here. :slightly_smiling_face: )I didn’t buy it with the intention of doing ADSB on it, but it is just an example of better hardware in the <$100 price range. Overkill for our hobby? For sure. Higher electricity costs? Absolutely. Something fun to tinker with and keeps my propeller-head turning? No doubt. Some folks wouldn’t spend this, but for me it works… no matter how I end up using it at the end of the day.

2 Likes

I started a new hobby recently by adding a $10 generic DVB-T, a simple 162 MHz DIY antenna, and AIS software to my under-utilized ADSB Thin Client HP 520T. I am now tracking ships & boats in Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, and Welland Canal connecting above two lakes in Toronto, Canada.

Does anyone monitor AIS (Ship and Vessel Tracking?)

Howto Run ADS-B Receiver + AIS Receiver on Same RPi

 

 

 

 

 

1 Like

Yeah, I’ve seen the AIS setup before and it does look pretty cool! Having grown up in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, I’m no stranger to Erie or Ontario. My brother still lives on Lake Ontario, and I’m tempted to see if his pre-teen son would be interested in ADSB or AIS over the holidays - he’s young but very analytically minded.

Looks like you are in great great location for both. In a past life, I had a number of friends who lived in Mississauga and would love spending time with them in Toronto during the summer for (multiple) long weekends. Up and down Yonge street, have completed a few canoe races on the Humber river, Jays games, and maybe a few bottles of Blue. :slight_smile: Toronto is a great city!

I’m still pretty green here, just turned 30 days of feeding FA last week, but feel like I have come quite a ways since my first RTL-SDR Blog v3 and the rpi3. I think my hardware game is just about there, (for now) but still working on how best to optimize my setup with gain etc. the finer-grain details. That said, maybe AIS will be in my future - thanks for sharing this!

1 Like

I thought I’d follow-up on my T820 purchase - just as fuel for thought if anyone should be interested in an another example of a rpi alternative - now or in the future.

To recap, I was able to find a used HP T820 Thin Client (Intel i5 2.9Ghz Quad Core, 4gb, wifi, 16gb SSD, & active cooling) for $50 (+$20 shipping) on ebay. The seller listed it as in “decent” condition, but then it came and I would call it “like new” myself. Clean as a whistle and just a 3-4 very small spots in the paint that had chipped off. Overall a nice unit, but there was only one aspect I didn’t care for and that was the inability for this box to accept a full length SSD. I don’t trust the HP original drive in there as my primary, due to age, but left it in the box as a place to dump my Clonezilla backup to. :slight_smile: I had an older Crucial SSD 2.5" I threw in there… at least I know the history on that drive.

Snapshot of the hardware; minus the SSD (beige slot) and one SODIMM

I know that I said that I didn’t purchase the unit with the intention of running ADSB on it, but my curiosity got the better of me and I did set it up as such. What changed my mind, and there wasn’t much arm-twisting involved at all, was that I was finally able to have both 978 & 1090 dongles in the same box and not struggle with MLAT synchronization - something I’ve always had a tough time with. So long second FA site!

Anyways, installed Debian 11.5 on it, without any issue. Same approach on installation as abcd567 lists above, with the exception of wifi.

Flashed a new bios on the unit: HP BIOS 02.70 Rev. A (Nov 7, 2016) Filename: sp77880.exe (Located here at time of writing: https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp77501-78000/sp77880.exe)

This model uses the Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 wireless card, requiring the use of iwlwifi drivers, and tossed that on a usb for the install process. (Located here: Debian -- Package Download Selection -- firmware-iwlwifi_20221012-1_all.deb)

Everything installed just fine and without issue. Below are a few details on the host; please pay little attention to my gain charts, I’m still very much reading/learning and trying to avoid asking a million questions - but there are a lot of posts on this topic to consume. :slight_smile:

Just one more success story as an alternative to a raspberry pi, and may be/hopefully useful to someone else later.


Airspy Config

OPTIONS= -v -t 90 -f 1 -w 5 -P 8 -C 95 -E 60 -e 60.0
SAMPLE_RATE= 24

Airspy Status

root@BeastAware:/# date; systemctl status airspy_adsb
Tue 08 Nov 2022 01:38:53 PM EST
● airspy_adsb.service - Airspy ADS-B receiver
     Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/airspy_adsb.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
     Active: active (running) since Mon 2022-11-07 10:53:31 EST; 1 day 2h ago
       Docs: https://discussions.flightaware.com/t/howto-airspy-mini-piaware-dump1090-fa-configuration/44343
   Main PID: 175685 (airspy_adsb)
      Tasks: 9 (limit: 19038)
     Memory: 27.9M
        CPU: 1d 3h 1min 2.866s
     CGroup: /system.slice/airspy_adsb.service
             └─175685 /usr/local/bin/airspy_adsb -v -t 90 -f 1 -w 5 -P 8 -C 95 -E 60 -e 60.0 -l 47787:beast -c 127.0.0.1:30004:beast -g 20 -m 24 -S /run/airspy_adsb/stats.json

Nov 07 10:53:31 BeastAware systemd[1]: Started Airspy ADS-B receiver.
Nov 07 10:53:31 BeastAware airspy_adsb[175685]: airspy_adsb v2.2-RC30
Nov 07 10:53:31 BeastAware airspy_adsb[175685]: Listening for beast clients on port 47787
Nov 07 10:53:31 BeastAware airspy_adsb[175685]: Packing is active, limiting CPU target to 90 %
Nov 07 10:53:31 BeastAware airspy_adsb[175685]: Acquired Airspy device with serial B58069xxxxxxxxxx
Nov 07 10:53:31 BeastAware airspy_adsb[175685]: Decoding started at 24 MSPS (Gain: 20; CPU target: 90 %)
Nov 07 10:53:32 BeastAware airspy_adsb[175685]: Push client connected to 127.0.0.1:30004 (beast)
root@BeastAware:/# 

Airspy Charts


Hardware Stats

root@BeastAware:/# lshw -short
H/W path           Device     Class       Description
=====================================================
                              system      HP t820 Flexible Thin Client (E3T40UA#ABA)
/0                            bus         2145
/0/0                          memory      64KiB BIOS
/0/9                          processor   Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570S CPU @ 2.90GHz
/0/9/a                        memory      1MiB L2 cache
/0/9/b                        memory      256KiB L1 cache
/0/9/c                        memory      6MiB L3 cache
/0/d                          memory      16GiB System Memory
/0/d/0                        memory      8GiB SODIMM DDR3 Synchronous 1600 MHz (0.6 ns)
/0/d/1                        memory      8GiB SODIMM DDR3 Synchronous 1600 MHz (0.6 ns)
/0/100                        bridge      4th Gen Core Processor DRAM Controller
/0/100/2                      display     Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
/0/100/3                      multimedia  Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller
/0/100/14                     bus         8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family USB xHCI
/0/100/14/0        usb2       bus         xHCI Host Controller
/0/100/14/0/5                 generic     RTL2832U
/0/100/14/0/6                 generic     AIRSPY
/0/100/14/1        usb3       bus         xHCI Host Controller
/0/100/19          eno1       network     Ethernet Connection I217-LM
/0/100/1a                     bus         8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family USB EHCI #2
/0/100/1a/1        usb1       bus         EHCI Host Controller
/0/100/1a/1/1                 bus         Integrated Rate Matching Hub
/0/100/1b                     multimedia  8 Series/C220 Series Chipset High Definition Audio Controller
/0/100/1c                     bridge      8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #1
/0/100/1c.3                   bridge      8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #4
/0/100/1c.3/0      wlp2s0     network     Centrino Advanced-N 6205 [Taylor Peak]
/0/100/1d                     bus         8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family USB EHCI #1
/0/100/1d/1        usb4       bus         EHCI Host Controller
/0/100/1d/1/1                 bus         Integrated Rate Matching Hub
/0/100/1f                     bridge      Q87 Express LPC Controller
/0/100/1f.2        scsi0      storage     8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family 6-port SATA Controller 1 [AHCI mode]
/0/100/1f.2/0      /dev/sda   disk        256GB Crucial_CT256MX1
/0/100/1f.2/0/1    /dev/sda1  volume      237GiB EXT4 volume
/0/100/1f.2/0/2    /dev/sda2  volume      976MiB Extended partition
/0/100/1f.2/0/2/5  /dev/sda5  volume      976MiB Linux swap volume
/0/100/1f.2/1      /dev/sdb   disk        16GB SanDisk SDSA6DM-
/0/100/1f.2/1/1    /dev/sdb1  volume      13GiB EXT4 volume
/0/100/1f.2/1/2    /dev/sdb2  volume      976MiB Extended partition
/0/100/1f.2/1/2/5  /dev/sdb5  volume      976MiB Linux swap volume
/0/100/1f.3                   bus         8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family SMBus Controller
/0/1                          system      PnP device PNP0c01
/0/2                          system      PnP device PNP0c02
/0/3                          system      PnP device PNP0b00
/0/4                          generic     PnP device INT3f0d
/0/5                          system      PnP device PNP0c02
/0/6                          input       PnP device PNP0303
/0/7                          input       PnP device PNP0f03
/0/8                          system      PnP device PNP0c02
/0/a                          generic     PnP device IFX0102
/0/b                          system      PnP device PNP0c02
/1                            power       High Efficiency
root@BeastAware:/# 

System Graphs

htop Snapshot

nmon Snapshot

1090 & 978 Graphs (Just for a sense of system load)

2 Likes

I’ve got a couple of Zero Ws (not a Zero 2), they work fine provided you don’t run extra graphs, charts etc.

Mine take around 400 mA running headless and just a tuner plugged in.

Geoff

1 Like

The idea of using alternatives to the venerable Pi (until supplies arrive/prices drop) is not lost on others: https://hackaday.com/2022/11/25/when-pi-supply-falls-short-thin-clients-stand-tall-for-home-automation-and-low-power-computing/

FYI: I’ve added several HP T620s (quad core) to the stable of hard-working, quiet, relatively low-power consumption (5-7 Watts average) at about 30-60USD plus tax for each recycled investment to the lab here (ebay US supply). I enjoy having a complete case and stable power supply, gigabit ethernet, many USB 3.0 ports on each device.

2 Likes

Celeron J4105 or J4125 based boards are a pretty nice alternative. There’s quite a few thin clients based on in it, and by x86 standards it’s not massively powerful, but it’s more powerful than a pi and they often have 8GB RAM and better connectivity.

I use a J4105 based SBC as a small server and it’s been very good - power consumption is minimal at about 6W at idle and 15-20W at full load. I have it running all sorts of services including a media server which is capable of transcoding 4k video in real time using the on board graphics. It would be overkill for adsb alone, but it has a lot of flexibility and given the poor availability of a pi 4 might make a good alternative.

2 Likes

 

Any thoughts on trying to use extra laptops for this purpose? What would be the oldest laptop cpu or other consideration that might still be usable? Looks like abcd567’s Apr12 post might be a test plan to emulate. Try to boot from linux usb and try to install a feeder?

1 Like

I’ve managed to use 2009-vintage Asus-eee (32-bit Intel Atom, 2GB mem, SSD) and Acer Aspire (32-bit Intel Atom, 2GB mem, SSD) running MX Linux 32-bit (Debian base) as portable field platforms for all sorts of RTL-SDR work. Self-contained field units, still have plenty of life left for my field use purposes, Their vintage batteries hold out quite a while under load (several hours under load), they have three USB ports with plenty of room for RTL-SDR dongles. Downsides include the need for some patience for things like the browser to fire up, builds taking a while, old/fat/arthritic fingers trying to use the small keyboard/keys/trackpad, and getting un-used to systemd (remembering the SysV init system) for installs. Frankly, picking up a used 5-year old laptop for USD100-150 and recycling my old friends might be a better use of my time, but I have LOTS of that (time, not money) to spare in retirement :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

2 Likes

Using a Odroid HC4. ADS-B tracking, one SDD and one HDD as NAS and download station, and Home assistant (testing).

1 Like

I have tested it on the (very) old device my wife was using years ago.
Acer Aspire 1810T, released in 2009 with 2 GB RAM the harddisk was later replaced with a 128GB SSD.

ran without issues

1 Like

Ive gotten a lot of used T630s recently, for as little as $10 + shipping, without SSD or power supply, but those can be gotten for $10 as well. Im swapping a couple of my T620 dual and quad core feeders for these just for the extra ‘continuity’ of running all the same model. Theyre quite amazing little machines. I even got a couple that have win10IoT on them that run pretty well!

An update after about a year hunting down and working with these thin clients, and the continued scarcity/high prices of Rasperry Pi hardware. Understand this is from a continental US-based perspective, price/availability experiences may be (are) likely different elsewhere. This is just my perspective - there are many paths to the ‘right’ configuration, whatever defines ‘right’ for those in this hobby.

Patience in shopping has yielded a nice collection of HP T630 thin clients over this time, replacing the HP T520 clients I initially found (and have since recycled). They are quad-core AMD SOCs 2GHz, 8GB memory, 128GB SSD, hard-wired ethernet. Oddly enough, the measured power consumption (Kill-A-Watt device) on average is the same as the HP T520 running the same kit (dump1090-fa, piaware, tar1090, graphs1090). I re-purposed the HP t520 power supplies (they use the same 19.5VDC/3.3amp supply). I found the HP T630 client with the above configuration for a total of USD37 each (including sales tax and shipping). Genuine HP power supplies can be found for around USD10 on ebay (risky with a non-HP supply because of issues). If you really need a stand, those can be found as well - I do without. The PROs/CONs I originally talked are still valid for me.

In retrospect, the HP thin clients (HP T520, HP T620, HP T630) still all represent a good value in this hobby considering the current status of RaspPi in the marketplace. Whichever one you can find (complete) at the best price will still run circles around the RaspPi in performance, at the cost of power use (8-9 watts) and size (bigger) - up to the individual to decide if those (and any other perceived factors) are worth it.

Also, if you want to see the relative power consuption of your running process, have a look at the powertop (apt install powertop) - while it is mostly suitable for laptops and tuning battery power profiles, it’s handy to see what consumes power in a running system (if it’s measureable).

root@debian:~# apt-cache policy powertop
powertop:
  Installed: 2.11-1
  Candidate: 2.11-1
  Version table:
 *** 2.11-1 500
        500 http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

On the same HP T630 client running all the above, it’s barely working (see the CPU frequency load)
image

5 Likes

I’ve going to get 2 T520’s next week from a customer of mine that is phasing them out.
In exchange for a cake so that’s a good deal. :grinning:
Then I’ll play around with them to see how they perform as a feeder station :wink:

I am appreciative of your original post which spurred me to get a T520 last year as I have gotten much use from it. System runs two RTL-SDRs for AIS (regular and long-range signals) on permanent basis and also has dumphfdl, dumpvdl2 and acarsdec installed so I can play with those when I want. Plenty of USB ports to stick dongles in to.

I am a bit leery on installing other feeders and add-ons to my Pi running Piaware. Don’t want to break anything I suppose. In the past few weeks I have begun to feed FR24 and use graphs1090 by installing them on the T520 and consume the necessary data over the local network. Works great and barely a noticable blip in extra resources used.

Your post re using HP thin clients has gotten me interested in these machines, even though I have an aversion to HP in general.

Thank you @AhrBee for creating this thread. Your first few posts allured me in purchasing a used Thin Client HP520, try variou OS on it and finally settle for Debian 11.5 amd64.

I have installed and running successfully followin on it:

  • AIS-catcher
  • dump1090-fa
  • piaware
  • fr24feed
  • pfclient
  • rbfeeder (through docker)
  • performance graphs

All working OK. CPU usage is very low, may be around 20% (dont remember exact figure)