C-FKKH Flight Tracker March 28/08.
Aircraft is owned by AD Williams of Edmonton, went missing on a flight from Edmonton to Winnipeg with 5 on board.
Now reported as down in rough terrain with deep ravines, 300 kilometers from Edmonton. Canadian Forces C130 and Griffon Helicoper are on scene and report some debris spotted?, but not the crash site.
Whoa. Doesn’t sound too good. Look at the last 10 minutes of the track log:
09:02 53.23 -111.10 245 27300
09:03 53.25 -110.97 247 27200
09:03 53.23 -110.98 250 27100
09:04 53.23 -110.85 248 27100
09:04 53.22 -110.87 237 27100
09:05 53.23 -110.73 253 27000
09:05 53.20 -110.75 252 27000
09:06 53.22 -110.63 248 27000
09:06 53.20 -110.63 253 26900
09:07 53.20 -110.52 253 26800
09:07 53.18 -110.55 252 26500
09:08 53.15 -110.47 240 26000
09:08 53.12 -110.55 224 26500
09:09 53.10 -110.50 204 26500
09:09 53.07 -110.60 236 26200
09:10 53.05 -110.53 213 24800
09:10 53.00 -110.60 243 23900
09:11 53.03 -110.57 93 13400
09:11 53.03 -110.68 116 14600
09:12 53.03 -110.58 26 9000
RCMP confirmed that there are no survivors in this accident.
The pilot, CEO of A.D. Williams Engineering of Edmonton, was Reagan Williams. His Father, Allen Williams along with another passenger were killed last October when their Cessna 172L C-GQZX crashed at the 1500 meter level of the Rocky Mountains near Golden BC.
It made headlines, because a toddler, survived the accident as she was upside down in the wreck for 5 hours strapped into a car seat.
The Senior Williams was a huge supporter of Aviation in Edmonton, including past President of the Edmonton Flying Club, Past Chair of the Edmonton Flight Association, and Past Board Member of the Edmonton Regional Airport Authority.
Photo and Fathers Memoriam photo shows Reagan and his dad leaning on the nose of ill fated Piper.
The loss in Aviation circles in Edmonton will be devastating. This is one of those rare families, self made, succesful, and spend their time giving back to the community.
It’s actually a Jetprop conversion.
http://www.adwilliams.com/Corporate_Profile/Corporate_Aircraft/MalibuPlane.jpg
err…was… 
Yeah, that’s what I meant.
I like the photo on your link, the nose section is huge.
jetprop.com/ Clicked on their website, and it states,
“Experience 260 knots at FL270”.
From Flightaware, it was tracking at FL270, I don’t even want
to guess the speed. From the news reports, it sounded like
they were finding ‘pieces’ of airplane, no airplane.
From the fluctuations of GS and ALT in the Flight Log, it appears as it was a rough ride… And from the reports of “finding pieces”… sounds like another PA46 inflight break-up.
A 10,000 fpm descent will do that to some planes…wonder what the weather was, and if there was an icing issue…I don’t see anything on the log resembling an overspeed, but 93 knots groundspeed at 13,400 might be close to a stall, forget about the last return at 26 knots.
Groundspeed has nothing to do with stall speed on an airplane.
I can stall my Sundowner with a 200 knots groundspeed if the tailwinds are strong enough to push me over the ground that fast.
Allen
Yes, I thought of that too…but there seem to be no weather reports at the area. I was thinking in a calm/light wind condition. Not to mention any icing, which is what I’d like to know.
The fluctuations in both GS and ALT from 06:54 to 07:09 would be an indication of turbulence and/or wave activity. With Edmonton being on the lee side of the Divide, it can get pretty rough. If the AP was engaged is the same scenario that lost several PA46 airframes and lead to the Special Airworthiness Review of the PA46 years ago.
No offense QuickBurn…but if you haven’t flown a light aircraft in those kinds of conditions, it’s more difficult to have an appreciation for just how ugly it can get…
Yeah like 6 months ago!!!? I remember that one as well. Terrible!
Again, even in calm wind conditions, while ground speed and indicated airspeed may be close, I wouldn’t correlate ground speed to stall speed. Neither inter-twine.
Instead of guessing (it seems that you are calling it thinking), there are plenty of internet resources when it comes to weather so there are plenty of weather reports available.
At that latitude AND altitude, highly unlikely winds were calm based on today’s map.
For historical weather check out
hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/dailywxmap … 80327.html
I am making the assumpton you do know what creates icing conditions. If not, again plenty of internet resources.
I’d suspect that at 23000 feet, icing VERY UNLIKELY in Canada this time of the year unless there were thunderstorms which I did not see on today’s maps up that way.
For various flight level wind conditions go to
weather.unisys.com/upper_air/ua_500.html This map is where class A airspace begins in the USA, not sure about Canadian airspace rules. Take note of the temperatures and I’d suspect you will come to a different conclusion for icing as a potential cause.
aos.wisc.edu/~hopkins/aos100/upairmap.htm will help you define what altitude for what mb map.
Allen
Anybody know what brand of carseat?
Reported in the press, “There was no indication of a parachute being used, or any similar safety equipment.”!!!
-It appears the Piper Malibu-46 started breaking up before it went down. A piece of the wing was found about five kilometres from the crash site.
-Minutes before the plane went off radar, Mr. Williams reported trouble.
CTV News obtained a report filed to Transport Canada that stated a flight controller in Edmonton observed the aircraft moving erratically.
The controller queried the pilot who reported a problem with a gyroscope. The aircraft was then observed in a rapid descent and … lost contact with the aircraft.
-NavCanada reports sky between Edmonton and the Saskatchewan border contained broken layers of cloud from 760 metres to 4,200 metres above the ground, and moderate icing conditions.
Visibility was one kilometre in mist with freezing fog, ground temperature was 7 C.
That adds an interesting dynamic.
Everything I am looking at seems to be that should be -7C on the surface at or around the time of flight???
weather.noaa.gov/weather/CA_cc.html
Good historical weather site for Canadian sites would be climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc. … ada_e.html
Dunno about others, but at 23000 feet, I have a problem with icing being even considered the primary cause of this unfortunate accident. We are talking at the cirrus level of the cloud family and I just don’t see it being conducive of icing on an airplane airframe.
Allen
You would think a Malibu would be on autopilot under these conditions.
Icing induced disconnect?
