What is happening here


Look up N400GE, it’s a Cessna over Maryland.It actually has a destination filed so why is the flight path so weird?

JetBlast :slight_smile:


Those are flights where it picked up either pop-up IFR which didn’t get put into the system or VFR flight following. It won’t have a departure and arrival airport listed, so FlightAware doesn’t clear the history between these flights. The next time it flies an airport-to-airport IFR flight the history will be cleared.


The owner is an flight training place in Maryland (Freeway Aviation/Airport). Since they’re inside the ADIZ they have to get VFR flight following for every flight (and it looks like they’re not happy about that).


I read the owner’s letter to the House of Representatives. You really have to feel for the guy. He’s an innocent victim, trapped in a never-ending Catch-22.


That guy is definately suffering from some serious BS that he shouldn’t be. Oh well, who said the government was efficient and all knowing :unamused:


I don’t understand why this guy is so bent out of shape. He’s outside the restricted GA zone, but inside the ADIZ, so all he has to do is file a VFR plan for departure within the ADIZ, sq the code on the ground, and depart like normal.

He’s not getting flight follosing (no traffic advisories), just being monitored to make sure nothing “funny” goes on…and with stories like the student and his instructor TALKING about how tough that airspace is and then STILL flying in it…I don’t think it’s that bad of an idea. Never got that one myself actually. I’m no pilot, and I’m “passable” at reading a chart, but I KNOW you can’t fly over the White House, Captiol area…and I KNOW what the Washington Monument looks like cause I had 8th grade civics…when I see the pointy end is pointed at it…I’m turning around.

I think this guy isn’t embracing what he’s got here. Most VFR students don’t get a hell of a lot of information about interacting with ATC. I think he should embrace it as something else to teach…a little “so, when you get hooked and wanna be IFR you gotta jump start” thing on how to talk to ATC, etc. Something like that.

Make the lemonade, man!!!


All respect to your opinion, but you obviously have not been keeping up with airspace restrictions since 9/11. You mentioned that you are “no pilot” and that is very obvious. Many people might view your comments as rude, callous and insensitive, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt as being very uninformed.

Note that the letter in question was written in October, 2001. Freeway Airport WAS completely shut down at that time as well as many other airports in the area. Although Freeway is more or less able to operate now, that area is probably the toughest airspace in the world to fly in because of all of the restrictions, with even more being proposed. Pilots in the DC area have to follow unbelievable complicated procedures just to keep from from being potentially shot down by our own military. I won’t go into more details since that would take many pages, but you might want to look more into the situation before you make a comment like that.

I don’t know of one single pilot who feels like the knee-jerk reaction after 9/11 was justified or that most of the remaining restrictions are still justifed. Every single pilot I know believes that the restrictions are ludicrous, do absolutely nothing to improve national security and continue to impede our liberty without justification.

Of course, there are those at TSA and FAA that disagree with me, so there are two sides to the issue. But TSA and FAA have yet to show that these flight restrictions actually do anything to help the situation.


BTaylor: Sick thing is that TSA pretty much can dick around the FAA anyway they want. I was talking to one of the inspectors who stopped by work to inspect our deicing operation (which he watched for maybe the first 5 seconds) and asked him “So, given that TSA and FAA are both administrative agencies, who trumps who?” “TSA trumps FAA” He gave me a story about TSA jackin him around at a checkpoint because they wanted to get their federal employee rocks off, but I can’t remember it clearly unfortunately. So I wouldn’t be surprised if TSA is the ring leader in this.

As for mkreilein, you should leave until you get educated

Most VFR students don’t get a hell of a lot of information about interacting with ATC.

You’re f*cking kidding me, right? What gives you the right to make this seriously false statement? Passable at reading a chart huh? So tell me then, what would dark gray lines signify?

And by the way, with your statement that he’s just being monitored to make sure nothing “funny” goes on, you seriously make me think you are the kind of person that would just love to have the thought police come into existance.


How are those pop-up IFR flights going?


:smiley: Good point! Sorry, I just couldn’t let it go…


Guys, I didn’t want to create an argument here. I was just asking a simple question. Please calm down. I understand your anger, I’m not too fond of the TSA or the FAA, I’m sure they watch me while I’m plane spotting and I DO NOT like that. A security guy in a black Impala with US Gov’t plates even pulled up next to me last time I was a Dulles. Why? I don’t know. As a teenager, it really scared me. I wish the TSA and FAA would let up a little.

JetBlast :slight_smile:



In re-reading my post, yeah…didn’t come out right at all.

Was actually just trying to find something positive he could pull out of all the crap that when on after 9/11. I did check out the date of the letter; however, I couldn’t find any older airspace restrictions so all I could go on was what I could see at the time (where he wasn’t shut down).

My younger brother was going through his PPL training at that time and even in Nowhere, KY where he was training, it got to be a bigger PITA.

I thought that it was the increased complexity had “effectively” shut him down not that he was actually shut down. Yeah, closed I see his point 100% If it was just that he had more BS to deal with (and it IS the gov’t so I can see that happenin’) was just hoping he could find a way to pull SOMETHING good out of it.

The more interaction with ATC thing was based on my family member’s experience with his PPL. Yes, he was within the 30 nm ring so had to have an A/C equipped with the proper xponder, but he was NEVER asked to sq a code, or radar identified as they were always under the B, departed from a non-towered airport, and after departure were able to quickly get outside that 30 nm boundary (I believe he said that they would advise ATC they were in the area, but that was about it…it’s been a while you’ll have to excuse my crappy memory). So he got VERY limited interaction with ATC.

Anyway, if I try to splain my thought here more it’s not gonna work, but trust me, the shutdowns, etc. are not right. I’m in NO WAY supporting that the rights of many should be suspeneded for the wrongs of a few.

Just trying to “spitball” something he could pull out of this that was positive. Maybe there isn’t a positive to pull our of this at all…just trying to search for one.

Someone told me the other day “Oh my God, you’re a closet optimist.”, which is true. Course this was in the middle of her splitting up with me and handing me my own butt on a platter…so maybe I’m a bit TOO optmistic :smiley:


Thank you for having the nerve to re-examine your view. I, for one, am glad that you are now more enlightened. Takes nerve, so you get credit. You can play in our sandbox again! :slight_smile:

As for your brother, I hope he can get more training on ATC. For a PPL, this is a mandatory part of training. Many people are in situations that they seldom need to talk to ATC, but in my opinion they should not hesitate if the need arises. ATC can be a lot of help when you need it, and obviously a requirement in some places. If he has gotten his license, encourage him to ask the instructor to work with him more on his next Flight Review, and if he has not, he should get the info now so he is comfortable using ATC when needed.

Added benefit is that if he gets IFR rating, you can watch him on FlightAware!