Difference in numbers


#1

I am new, please have patience.
I am looking at an airport that graphs on average about four flights per hour yet when I look at the utiilization it says they average 185 flights a day. Why is there such a difference?


#2

The graph only shows tracked (IFR) flights.

The 185 flights average includes VFR flights, which aren’t shown on the graph.

In addition, a student making 4 touch and goes equals four discrete “flights” for FAA reporting purposes.

Welcome to the Forum.


#3

Thanks for the comeback. Again I am a little new to this. Are VFR flights logged and can the numbers be inflated. I live near an airport that claims 70,000 flights a year. I just don’t see that type of activity. I imagine that airports get federal money by the amount of flights per year.


#4

I understand what you are trying to say but really, 70,000 movements per year is not that much. Break down the math and you will see it is not hard to do.
70,000 operations per year / 365 = approx 192 operations per day
192 per day / say just 12 hours = 16 operations per hour
All it takes is 16 operations an hour to get 70,000 per year.


#5

It has only one runway 5100 feet long.

I have lived here 22 years and the airport has always been a good neighbor. They are considering expansion and the area is sort of up in arms. It just seems that the numbers are a little inflated, possibly to overstate the importance of the airport and the need for expansion. I am just seeking a little information that I hope will be objective. Like I said emotions are runniing a little high here.


#6

“The airport operations count is the statistic maintained by the control tower. Basically, it is the number of arrivals and departures from the airport at which the airport traffic control tower is located. Specifically, one airport operation count is taken for each landing and takeoff, while two airport operations counts; i.e., one landing and one takeoff, are taken for each low approach below traffic pattern altitude, stop and go, or touch and go operation.” (Emphasis added.)

faa.gov/Atpubs/FAC/Ch12/s1202.html


#7

Leave it to the Gubment…

I do a stop and go, it counts as 2 operations.
I taxi to the ramp, shut down, pick up a passenger fire up the powerplant and it counts as one operation.

Both operations use the same ATC components. Ground, Tower and Approach controllers.

Allen


#8

The OP didn’t say which airport it was. There may not even be a control tower.
Basically 16 operations an hour is not a lot when you consider that a take-off is an operation and a landing is an operation. At the local airport in good weather, the private pilots make a lot of practice TO and landings, so on a weekend, you may have a lot more than 16 operations an hour


#9

So what airport are we talking about here? 5100 feet is not a very short field. Why are they expanding?


#10

Yes, we need to know which airport the discussion is referring to. I also live in NE Ohio, and I’m not aware of any impending airport expansions right now. You’ve piqued my curiosity.


#11

"OP?"
Is this Original Poster?
Is this Operational Priority?
Is this short for Opie (as in Opie Taylor)?
Is this short for “Oh, papa?”

Judging by context I’d say the first item listed. But, as in aviation, good communications is vital. MY opinion says that one doesn’t use abbreviations unless one is 100% sure everyone will know what one is talking about.

Should anyone disagree, just remember that this is my personal opinion. My views are not endorsed by anybody with IQs under 99, the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, the (insert ethnicity) Caucus, or anybody else in the universe. Additionally, should you disagree, don’t forget to lather, rinse, and repeat.


#12

Thanks again for the replies.
The airport I am talking about is Cuyahoga County Airport or KCGF. There is a control tower. They want to expand the runway by 1900 feet and the saftey zone by 1000 feet. This would entail taking property including mine. As I have stated I have lived here for 22 years. The homes in the area average about 250,000-300,000 each, so a lot is at stake.
UPS is big player in all of this. They have a hub here and want to grow the airport. The plans even include a viaduct road directly to the UPS site. Two Counties are involved, as are a lot of politics. The airport cannot handle the traffic that UPS wants to bring in as it sits.
When I moved here the airport was used mainly by flying enthusiasts and local buisness. I loved watching the small planes fly over and often kicked myself for not learning how to fly. A tower was put in a few years ago and the airport used these huge numbers to justify the tower. They call them “Take-offs and Landings.” They use these numbers to justify how much business the airport generates and how active it is. I have never understood how they arrived at these numbers until now. Everythig seemd to be such a secret when I asked. Most of the general public is not aware of how the airport works and I believe that the politicians use that to their advantage.
I am not opposed to pilots or flying. I am just on a fact gathering mission. Don’t hammer on me too hard!!!


#13

Given the fact that UPS is behind the expansion and you’re dealing with two county agencies (both of which are tasked by their respective constituent base to seek the Holy Grail of ratables in order to reduce property taxes) my suggestion would be to hire an attorney to negotiate with them on your behalf, take the money and run.


#14

Can’t resist! :smiley: Talk about a "wind"fall!

Allen


#15

I will probably be one of the lucky ones because my house would be bought out. The unfortunate people are those that have to stay. It is quite a procees though, with environmental studies ,noise studies and such. I will probably be held hostage for a while and in the meantime my home value has tanked. Being a recent empty nester my house has become a little big and had consisered selling anyway. That is probably out of the question now. It is just a proposal now and I’m sure there will be a lot of heated discussion. This is a great neighbor hood and the airport as it sits now isn’t too much of a problem. I just don’t understand the “BIGGER IS BETTER” mentality. That is probably fodder for another time and website!!!
The FAA buys people out everyday. They even have on their website a pamphlet about how to negotiate with them. They claim that people are treated fairly. We shall see. With the new eminent domain laws it seems easier to condem property.


#16

“Money talks”

The bigger the better, the more money and revenues…

Allen


#17

Is the “hub” you’re talking about the Middleburg Heights facility? I know that UPS doesn’t have an AIR hub in Cleveland, but maybe that’s what they’re shooting for? This is news to me, and I WORK FOR UPS (BUT NOT in air ops). I’m gonna have to do a little research to see what’s going on here. I do remember hearing about KCGF wanting to expand, but for some reason I was thinking it was a long time ago, and I assumed that the plan must have been shelved, as I haven’t heard anything lately. I guess I’m just out of the loop! :wink:
Good luck with your house. I’d follow JHEM’s advice and maximize what you can get for your property, as fighting tooth and nail will cost you $$BIG$$ and could very likely be a futile effort anyway. Locales in this area like to pull the “imminent domain” card out of their arses when money comes into play, and the city or county definitely WON’T pay nearly what you may be able to get with a “peaceful” legal negotiation.


#18

UPS has a facility in Highland Heights almost adjacant to the airport. The plan actually call for a tunnel under Bishop Road along with the road to UPS. You can acess recent articles in The News Herald. Talk of expansion has always been floated, but talk of expansion is more iminent now. A meeting has been set up with airport officials, poloticians and the public in late February.