Caution Icing Present!!!


#1

This is the scene today at my airport after our second day of an ice storm. The ice is finally melting but they are calling for more tonight.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/jknightcfi/IMG_2901002.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/jknightcfi/IMG_2902003.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/jknightcfi/IMG_2903004.jpg


#2

Yep, I’d say it meets the definition of “known icing”!

Even if somebody would be dumb enough to take off in visible moisture and all that ice hanging around without any icing certified equipment, just preflight would be a real bear to ensure controls free and clear if you were not in a hangar.

(if you didn’t fall on your head from the ramp ice alone)

Allen


#3

Caravans don’t have a very good record in known icing. That 300Z doesn’t appear to have deicing boots.


#4

Hmmm, look at the leading edge of the left wing on the first pic. You see, black, then grey and then black. Aren’t the black areas the inflateable boots?

What is that red thingy would be my question, Looks mighty big to be a pitot tube?


#5

Even Caravan’s with the option don’t perform well in ‘continued flight into known icing’. I believe the one’s that have crashed have had the boots. The one near here recently did.

Maybe the 300Z has weeping fenders?


#6

I was going to make a comment about the irony that eersfanpilot chose a Caravan for the photo subject as well.

The black areas are the de-ice boots. And the small gray area outside of the “red thingy” (which is the large pitot tube, covered) is the landing/taxi light lense cover.


#7

It was the only plane on the ramp.

Yesterday we had a PC-12 come in and I seriously thought they were going to overrun. The runway was worse yesterday and they did not hit the reverse until well after midway down the runway and it’s only 4200’. He even landed long. I kept watching him head toward the end of the runway, waiting on the plane to just start bouncing in the grass. :laughing:

No de-ice on the Z. I should have gotten the turbo model.


#8

If you go into hard reverse in the PC12 it will want to pull left in a serious way. On a slippery runway you’d want to do everything slowly but deliberately, no sudden movements. I’d throw it back into beta and let the drag do the rest, no brakes until nearly stopped, if at all.
The piaggio is even worse, it really should have anti-skid since it lands at 120kts and has notoriously touchy brakes, as well has hydraulic steering that can only be engaged below 60kts. If you’re holding some rudder into a crosswind or trying to get back on centerline and you ask for steering on, it will swerve all over the place. You have to make sure the rudder is centered before engaging the steering.


#9

Wow, that sure represents a whole lot of real estate left behind with you losing 60 knots on an icy runway and braking action is poor at best. Add in a long landing = perfect recipe for runway overrun.

Surprised we don’t hear these more often on this type of plane!

Allen


#10

Recovering From Ice-induced Stalls in Turboprops

Dec 12, 2007
By Patrick R. Veillette, Ph.D.

Article from Aviation Week


#11

Hey James, you should get yourself a KingAir, she’s a peach on ice. Just put the levers on the gate and work’em to go where you want! BTW, I think I saw a trace of clear ice in that first pic.


#12

Hey James,

They almost got it right with the Starship – yes, we have anti-lock and power brakes & power steering; however, the anti-lock releases all brakes when only one locks up. It is better than nothing, but still a challenge.

Long Live The Starship!

Chris
NC-29/N8244L


#13

[quote=“lieberma”]

To clarify, you can use the brakes at any speed, at your own discretion since they’re grabby and don’t have anti-skid. You can steer with aerodyanmic rudder action at speed, but the powered nosewheel steering cannot be engaged above 60kts. That said, in an emergency and you’re heading for the woods you can certainly click it on and give it a go.

I’ve only landed the pistachio on ice/snow a few times yet, but it handles it quite well. Not unlike flying a king air like Trafly said, but almost better because if the props don’t come back at exactly the same time in the king air there’s a ton of yaw. With the props way in the back there’s less likelihood of getting that extreme yaw. Plant it firm, slow it down fast and get the steering in.
Chris, we have power brakes already, I cannot fathom why they don’t just add the anti-skid system. That’s an unusual way to do it, releasing both brakes at the same time, I wish I could experience that…http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/poke.gif

0400 at IAD last week. Doors were frozen shut, we had to get a few cups of hot water to get the key in.


#14

How much was that deicing bill???

Chris


#15

230 something gallons at $17 a gallon.
We were on the waiting list for 3 hours the afternoon prior, went from #10 to #4 before we pulled the plug and got a hotel there. They were really slow, and really backed up. The list got to 16 planes long, so that’s like a 5 or 6 hour wait.
A GII got deiced and anti-iced and we figured out the bill to be over $12k. I guess Mr Bossman really needed to get somewhere. Allen’s thinking another bill like that would buy his Slowdowner!


#16

Is that safe to do? I was told always to heat the key up (lighter / match) for a car and let the ambient heat from the key melt the ice in the internal workings of the lock (providing you can even insert the key) as the water may just as well re-freeze in places unintended.

When I lived in Ohio, this trick worked when it was not brutally cold. Of course if it’s -100 below, probably not too much will work in the thawing process :slight_smile:

The cheap locks in my plane, I’d be afraid of doing more damage if I used hot water on the lock itself.

Allen


#17

Wow! I haven’t had to deice a Starship as yet, but I am told to expect a $2k to $4K bill depending on which airport I am at – so your numbers for your Piaggio (love pistachio – never heard that one – good) are a good comparison and verify what I have been told. I’ll gladly take that over a $12K bill!

We hangar where we can and when icing might be an issue – it is just cheaper to hangar than to go through the deice process both in time and money. The only places we go where it might be an issue is Aspen and Taos.

Are you off this week?


#18

More like almost a lifetime supply of Avgas would be more apprappro :smiley:


#19

In a car the meltwater would get inside the door mechanism itself. In the airplane the key just releases the door handle itself, and then the handle releases the door. Ya know those really cheap-ass key locks in the C152? yeah, we’ve got the same one on the baggage door. handle release. (which also needed to be de-thawed so I could hook up the battery)


#20

sounds like avantair needs to rethink their strategy on whether to hangar or leave out in inclement winter conditions!

I would have thought that Ferrari would have insisted on a better locking mechanism than that!

Your main door lock works the same as ours.

Chris