this is not really aviation related but icing related and icing is a factor in when we choose to travel.



Spectacular! :open_mouth:


Thaz nuts, and inside a tunnel??? Ice, what gives???



Looks like Seattle. Did that last car loose it’s dignity?


Just the sounds on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyfjZlOSq2A) make me cringe!


Just the sounds on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyfjZlOSq2A) make me cringe!

But it’s got four wheel drive?!?!?![/quote]


I can’t figure out what happens towards the end of the tunnel video, with the two box trucks. It almost looks like the first truck gets blindsided by a phantom truck that jumps out of the wall or something…


The Portland snow video I’ve seen before, but it’s great.
Even better are these idiots who think they’re safer bailing out of a moving car and risk getting run over by other cars (or their own) than to sit in it with their seatbelts on and take the fender bender.

Both of which remind me of a story. My mother and father came out to visit wifey and I in Utah when we lived out there. I convinced them to drive up a mountain road that we’d been on plenty of times to see the great views. What I didn’t realize was that the higher elevations were quite snow covered. Dad tried to get the rental Mitsubishi Montero on cheap-ass highway tires up the slippery slope but only succeeded in fishtailing up the hill to the next clear area before deciding that we weren’t going to make it any farther. Going down proved even more difficult and dangerous because we seriously had zero traction and there was a precipitous cliff off the side of the road. He had the thing in park for about a hundred yards before it came to a rest. In his best “papa know best” judgment, he instructed mom, wifey, me, and the dog to get out, while he unbuckled his seatbelt and popped open the door. He managed to get the thing down the hill by dragging two tires in the small ditch on the high side of the mountainside. He later told me that he was fully prepared to bail out and let the damn thing careen off the cliff if it started going.



your story reminds me of a trip to Lake Tahoe during a bad snow storm, It was coming down faster than the snow plows could clear it with snow over ice and almost zero traction. There were expensive SUVS like Range Rovers and Cayenes sliding off the road right and left. The drivers clearly didn’t know how to handle the conditions, but thought that paying $50K for a 4 WD SUV meant that they could just ‘point and shoot’. A couple of drivers that I talked to were outraged that the car couldn’t handle the conditions and didn’t take kindly to my suggestion that maybe it was the operator.


My wife used to work at the Sundance Resort. (yes, the same sundance as the film festival and Robert Redford.) Her daily commute was beautiful. The resort is at the top of a 8 or so mile very winding road. One side was rock mountainside and the other was a raging creek. There were numerous times where she was going to work in a snow storm only to watch the SUV’s ahead and behind her go sliding off into the rocks towards the creek. She couldn’t stop or she’d get stuck to, so she just kept the front of her little neon pointing up the hill while slip sliding until she reached the parking lot. After she alerted security to the other cars her colleagues all thought she made it there by snowmobile, no other cars had made it up in the past hour.

Yeah, she’s a workaholic.


MANY people don’t understand the simple mechanics of it all. Yes, 4WD cars and trucks enable quicker acceleration, and improved handling in the right drivers hands, but ALL cars use 4 wheels to brake. They think that because they’re in 4WD they can go faster, only to end up in the ditch around the next corner.


From personal experiences, 4WD does handle quite a bit different on braking.

With 4WD, I find it much more stabler (opposing wheels turning?) dunno. I find that fishtailing is virtually nil on braking and I seem to get better braking action with 4WD even if ABS engages.

Like you said though, you go too fast, doesn’t matter what you drive, it takes a x amount of space to stop 1000+ pound vehicle (or whatever a car weighs)

I think though people panic when the ABS engages and first thing they do is release the brake, exasperating the problem.

Now on ice, I found 4WD worse then frontwheel drive. The one time I ventured out on black ice, at less then 5mph, I spun like a top on a dirt road in 4WD. Disengaged the 4WD, put the one turning tire on the berm of the road for some traction and drove right back home.

Get me on normal snow, and I will have me some fun!




But it’s got four wheel drive?!?!?!

Like the car dealer told me when I bought an AWD car in Quebec City:

AWD gives you traction to get the car moving. But when it comes to turning and stopping, you’re no smarter than anybody else.

ABS is the best friend a guy can have when he has to stop on a slippery surface.[/quote]


one reason an AWD car might feel better in braking is that they usually have bigger rear brakes, better tires, and have more weight in back because of the rear differential and axle, in general making the car more balanced. Also, you have the benefit of all four wheels experiencing engine braking equally. Especially with a manual AWD car you can really use engine braking to your benefit.


Never drove a AWD car. Is the concept the same with how alternating front back tires have the torque when slippage is encountered?

I drive a Dodge Ram which has 4WD “on the fly” shifter. Standard “drive” on paved, but with wheel slippage, can put it in 4WD high or low.

Put snow in the bed for weight during the winter months when I was in Ohio. A win / win situation. Snow when piled up gives plenty of weight and when the weather warmed up, unloading was as simple as parking in the sun :smiley:

And Snowbird57 is right, ABS is the best thing since sliced bread PROVIDED the driver doesn’t let up on the brake when they activate.




But it’s got four wheel drive?!?!?!

Like the car dealer told me when I bought an AWD car in Quebec City:

AWD gives you traction to get the car moving. But when it comes to turning and stopping, you’re no smarter than anybody else.

ABS is the best friend a guy can have when he has to stop on a slippery surface.

I’ll qualify that.

ABS is great on flat surface. I find it a little uncomfortable coming down a snow covered road with any kind of grade. The ABS system actually increases stopping distance over pumping the brakes like before ABS.

Traction control sucks just as much on grade. Any slippage going up a hill and you lose all your forward momentum.

As said above, 4X4 is great for forward motion, and the drive train braking ( more mechanical friction over 4X2 ) allows for a little more control braking in slow, slippery conditions. Otherwise, the increased mass of a 4X4 vehicle makes it more likely to continue in a straight line when a turn would be more desirable.

-just for reference, I have a minivan and two jeeps-[/quote]


I loved my Wrangler when I had it for the summer for off-road, but hated it in the snow.

Yeah, it was a 4x4, but it sure was low end compared to my subsequent trucks.

Just didn’t seem to be enough weight in it, AND a crosswind in the flats of Ohio just made it a real treat to ride in the snow and ice.

Jeep is great for off roading for the high profile, but that’s the only good I saw out of that vehicle beside the top and doors off for summer time drives.



I learned my 4X4 lesson on black ice a long time ago. We’ll just leave it in the vault.


Lost control once in my YJ ( Wrangler ) and that was it to short wheel base in the winter. I garage it in the winter now.


Really? I find my TJ to be the perfect winter vehicle. It is much easier to control in the snow and ice than my 4wd Exploder. Even with my 12.5" wide MT tires with zero siping, it does just fine.

I really miss my old Talon TSi in the winter, though. AWD, Turbo, 5 speed, ABS. That was great. Just throw the whole car sideways entering the intersection, pop the clutch when lined up, hit the gas and I was off in an all new direction.