FlightAware Discussions

BREAKING NEWS - Dash 8 Crash in Buffalo


How many corporate jets still use the antiquated system?

“It’s a system that cannot guarantee the safety of passengers on a commercial flight,” Goldman said by phone Friday. “It should never be flown in these kinds of conditions.”

Guess we will just have to ground everything with boots on the wings, This would include the IAI Astra!!!

Again, I’ve flown aircraft with this antiquated system in at least 14 winters not to include the icing you can still get at altitude in the summer and they have worked just fine for me!


Newsflash – Pilots have a different perspective than the general public on the importance of changing things to show progress. If a plane worked in 1969, and there’s nothing substantially wrong with the original hardware concept, then why does it have to be any different by 2009?

By contrast, can you imagine someone saying that about a car or a mobile phone?


Goldman the lawyer also claims to be a pilot. My bet is, he owns a BE36 at best or the highest rating is an instrument ticket with SEL privileges.


FAA records indicate that Goldman has a private SEL issued in 1980 and no instrument rating. Yeah, a real expert.


Good find, I didn’t think he sounded like anyone with any kind of time or experience.


Just another ambulance chasing dumbass lawyer… :unamused:


Let’s not have redundancy here. “Dumb ass” is implied when you say lawyer.


:laughing: Now, now David…not all lawyers fit this stereotype, but point taken. :wink:


True, but I still wouldn’t want my sister to marry one.

In the true tradition of lawyers, here’s a disclaimer: Some lawyers are nice in a social setting but their jobs stink. :slight_smile:


It’s a free country (for now), this is the first of many to come.

Just wanted to be first in line, and get all the free advertising.

Why not. Someone is going to have to pay for this.

Just won’t know who for some time.


We’ll all pay for this via higher air fares and higher insurance premiums.


You are correct.


Why is Pinnacle being dragged into this? Did they have a codeshare on this segment?


Pinnacle is the parent company of Colgan. Shoot for them all… someone will fold.


Paying is a given. It’s America – everyone’s entitled to be paid for dying. :confused:

I think the issues for us are
(a) we fear this tactic will actually win, and have long-lasting effects on GA; or that it’ll stick in the public’s mind, and have long-lasting effects on GA; or otherwise,
(b) we want this creep to lose embarrassingly for being either clueless or evil enough to make this ridiculous argument.


This just in:

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090325/ap_ … _into_home


NTSB released a new Press Advisory today (25MAR09) about the Buffalo loss.


I found the following of particular interest:

“Preliminary airplane performance modeling and simulation efforts indicate that icing had a minimal impact on the stall speed of the airplane. The FDR data indicates that the stick shaker activated at 130 knots, which is consistent with the de-ice system being engaged. FDR data further indicate that when the stick shaker activated, there was a 25-pound pull force on the control column, followed by an up elevator deflection and increase in pitch, angle of attack, and Gs. The data indicate a likely separation of the airflow over the wing and ensuing roll two seconds after the stick shaker activated while the aircraft was slowing through 125 knots and while at a flight load of 1.42 Gs. The predicted stall speed at a load factor of 1 G would be about 105 knots. Airplane performance work is continuing.”


Why in the name of God??? I know it all happened so fast for them but man-o-man such a simple mistake…Of course I’m assuming that pulling the yolk is not the corrective action for a stall in the Dash 8.


Sounds like the pilot thought he was getting a tail stall, which the recovery is to pitch up! However the stick shaker does not come on for a tail stall in any aircraft that I know of! In the old 100/200/300 series a stall warning calls for max power and pitch to a positive rate of climb. This was an excesive pitch, way beyond the positive rate required. I know on the old 100/200 when you applied full/max power at that slow airspeed it would set you back in your seat and the stick shaker would quit almost immediately.


I could see that, but that requires some serious skills. I mean that would have to be on your mind in order to make that recovery, it’s just not natural. I can’t see making that recovery myself unless I was thinking, “ok tail stall is coming pull to recover, tail stall coming pull to recover.”

As was stated recovery for a wing stall in my a/c was to maintain positve pitch attitude and add power. I had spool up time, but with in 6 seconds you were being pushed into your seat also.