what shouuld i do


hi i dunno if this is the right place to ask this but im a student pilot and i got questions about my training and instructor up to now. i dont think hes safe and he makes me get the plane and pick him up and leave the engine runing and i pay for all that when i go pick him up and i havent solod yet and sometime he not ready when i pick him up and i have to sit there paying for the plane cuz the engines running. he dont spend anytime with me talking on the ground when we go for a lesson. i gave him 500 dollars but only got under 7 hours of trianing and i paid for the plane rentand that cust 700 dollars so i probs have to start all over again and pay another insturctor to do it all again for another 1200 dollers? im a student and i dont have a bunch of money to waist this cos t a bunch anways. what should i do my mom says i should report him but to who???


Find a new instructor or flight school. Maybe a 141 school. Feel free to PM me about this. This guy is a a scam artist. I instructed for 2 years full time, 2000 hrs dual given. He should spend a minimum of 20 or 30 minutes briefing the lesson for the day before you even head out to the plane. A little less if it’s a repeat of something, ie. takeoff and landing practice. If I had a student blocked for a 2 hour period, I typically had about .5 ground and 1.2 or 1.3 of flight. I’ve seen these guys who charge for the full 2 hours even when they are drinking coffee for 15 minutes as the student preflights. It’s a shame.


What trafly said.
Plus, as long as this guy has signed off your flights your flight time is yours. No need to start from scratch and spend all that money again.
If he hasn’t signed your flights off you are allowed to rebuild your logbook using receipts or some sort of verifiable way of recreating it. Ask another instructor or FAA inspector if you need to.


RUN don’t walk to another instructor as others already have implied.

Fight instruction is very expensive as you already noted, and NOWHERE in the process of learning should you be dissatisfied with your training because of something as mundane as what you describe.

Keep in mind, the experience (for what it may be worth) may help you when you get to your new instructor as some of the stuff you may have learned will always go with you and you may sail through the basic stuff with your new instructor saving you hobbs time on the meter…

So, the time in the log book may have been lost, but the experience you got thus far has not been lost would be the upside of all of this. Of course providing your current instructor is teaching you correctly.

Simply inexcusable on what you are experiencing.


Is this happening in the US? Which airport? Are you saying that you start an engine and taxi that aircraft on your own to pick your instructor up at a different location? Which FBO owns that plane? They just give you the keys and let you go? How old are you? No offense, but were you born in this country? Or maybe, you are just messing with all of us? Cuz it sunds unbulivabl 2 me! :slight_smile:


Wow! Lay off the vodka buddy. It is perfectly normal for the student to get the keys/clipboard to the aircraft at the desk, meet with his instructor to review objectives and then, go out to preflight on his/her own. If the student has displayed the ability to preflight and taxi to the instructor’s satisfaction, what’s the problem? I could see that a flight school might not allow this for liablilty reasons, but it’s hardly the crime of the century as you make it sound. I like the way you peppered him with quick bursts of questions though. Did you used to work in East Berlin?


I know at some airports they give the keys to students and even let them fly all by themselves. :unamused:


They let them fly solo without an instructor on board? What is this world coming to? :stuck_out_tongue:


Pilot license NOT required to taxi an airplane.


Lieberman, I know that. I have given about 3000 hour of instruction in the territory of the United States for variety of licenses and ratings and found that story really interesting. Not that I am being paranoid about letting 5 hour students taxi themselves to pick me up and overheating those poor engines by idling for 15 minutes after that, I just couldn’t imagine myself to be so trusting. It is that I would always do the simple preflight myself, to make sure things are in “East Berlin” order, Trafly! Understanding the US mechanical state of affairs lately, with armies of disgruntled and underpaid aircraft mechanics touching those planes, I would even pack my parachute myself. And this is in response to Trafly’s insults, which were really unnecessary. After all, I was just joking, since I loved the kid’s mind tweaking English. So, can we all get along?


Who needs a license to taxi an airplane, what could happen???


After five hours of instruction and you as an intructor couldn’t trust a student especially your own to taxi a plane??? Hmmmm… makes me one wonder how many hours it takes one of your students solo…

The **tone **of your response sure didn’t come from any 3000 hour plus instructor I have ever met…





Lieberman, I will say it again. He or she may be capable of taxiing an aircraft, but you as an instructor should not trust his preflight precision. If you read the student’s complaint carefully, you will notice that he says that his instructor lets him idle the engine until he hops in the craft and goes flying without any talk on the ground whatsoever. I understand it as an acknowledgment of the fact that the instructor doesn’t oversee his student’s preflight checks. And that’s enough for me. So this is a response to your intelligent “Hmmmm…”. Your 3000 hour instructors you met are probably dead now, or have no more power to even entertain this idiotic discussion. Remember that it is not about legality, but pure sanity and judgement. You can attack me from any angle now, but please, let me have my own opinion. I hope I am entitled to one, as a former chief flight instructor of a 141 flight school, where I was responsible for safety above all, dealing with FAA guys all the time. If you asked me yourself to let you go and fire it up on your own , taxi to pick me up, and trust you did your preflight of a beaten up and under maintained FBO craft correctly, I would certainly drop you as my student like a hot potato and send you elsewhere, where you can boost your ego by telling everybody how good you are.
So honestly, the East Berlin jokes aside, do you still believe that that situation was normal?


And if you read my response again, I said nothing about preflight decisions, just taxiing a plane.

I am in no position to say what is normal and what is not since I am not a CFI.

I will say by my fifth flight, I was preflighting on my own. This is not a chest pounding brag, just my own personal experience. That is not to say I wasn’t being observed from a distance. Student in question doesn’t mention this either. This is all I have to go on is my own experience.

Regarding my IFR CFI’s, one went on to the airlines, another went on to fly private jets, and my VFR CFI still instructs for the love of flying, so your assessment of my instructors is quite off base. And I am here to talk about it.

Unless I am talking from the world from beyond and I do not know it…


…I’m reading dead people… :open_mouth:


Hmmm, not sure whether I should take this as a good thing or not :wink:


Sixth sense?


No, he didn’t say it. But tell me, you do your preflight with an engine running? Let me borrow your famous " Hmmmm… ". Might be tough to check the spinner this way, or checking an alternator belt. I guess the kid must have a real fun reading it now! :slight_smile:


If you taught him (or her) what you expect on a preflight from the get go with nothing mechanical turning, we wouldn’t be conversing like this would we???

We are talking about a 5 to 7 hour student capable of taxing an airplane in this thread?