Turbocharged props vs. Eclipse 500/private jets


#1

Scenario

Biz guy needs to transport CEOs 1000-1500nm within 48 hr. Airlines won’t work.

Solution. Private plane (with specs like…)

1000-1500nm range
6-8 pax (any where inbetween)
200+ cruising speed

Which type? Turbocharged prop or jet. PC-12, PA-46 Mirage, etc. All of which are $1,000,000+ aircraft. Or, we have the Eclipse 500. 1280nm, 375 KTAS, at FL410. …for $1.395 million. …operating costs $302. (www.eclipseaviation.com)

So my question is, why would you buy a turbocharged prop when you could buy (for the same amount of $$$ or less) a jet (i.e. EA500)? Do you need an ATP liscense to fly a jet? If so, an ATP pilot might be kinda expensive to hire.

I’d go for the jet. :laughing: :exclamation:


#2

There is a vast difference between a “turbocharged prop” and a “turboprop” which is what I assume you meant as you list the PC-12 and Mirage as examples.

A turbocharged engine is simply a reciprocating engine with a turbocharger added to the inlet and exhaust to increase the amount of power available.

A turboprop is a true gas turbine powered aircraft.

You might want to correct your poll.

Regards,

James


#3

Well, if you need to transport them within 48 hours, you can always use a limo or a bus. 1500 nm divided by 48 hours is only 31.25 knots, a speed well within the capabilities of many buses and limos.

Sorry - had to be a smart ___ (another name for donkey).

Seriously, I’d take a PC-12 or a King Air. Both are well-proven aircraft while the Eclipse will (not may but will) have teething problems for the first year or so of service.

You have to also take into consideration the hourly worth of the CEOs. It may be more practical to actually use a small bizjet such as a Lear or due to their faster speed and slightly larger space.


#4

Just a quick note to mention the small fact that it will take TWO E500s to move 8PAX!

Regards,

James


#5

I almost suggested a JetProp conversion of a Malibu, which in the long run is cheaper than a Mirage, until I re-read the original post and saw 6-8 pax. PC-12 or a TBM is what I would say.

If there were fewer pax, look at the D-Jet. FIL best friend is #28 on the list to get one…if they ever make it out of production! SUpposed to have the operating costs somewhere between a turboprop and piston. At least, that is what the selling point was when they were first introduced…

Nowadays, you can get same speed and, at times, lower operating costs out of the PC-12’s of the world compared to a King.

EDIT: Also, on the PC-12, you have to look at the configuration. The Executive config. only has 6 pax while the Airline config has 9, but looks exactly as it sounds…


#6

PC12. You buy, I’ll fly.

-J-

And BTW, the PC12s are faster than the older KingAirs (C90’s and the like). I’m pretty sure they cant get as high (30k). And the operating cost of a PC12 will always be less than a King Air.


#7

Thanks for the clarification on the operating costs…

I wasn’t 100% sure.


#8

I dont have any concrete numbers right here either, but I’m pretty confident in my assumption, based on 2 engines versus one. Fuel costs alone make up a huge part of the operating costs.
Controllers love to make fun of the PC12 though. Just this morning one of the chicago center controllers kept calling us a platypus. Then issued a lance a traffic advisory and said, “Lance ___ traffic 2 o’clock 4 miles northbound 7 thousand, a Pilatus, kinda like a KingAir with only one engine, and located on the snoot.” (yes, snoot, not snout.) I replied “Har, Har.”


#9

I see what you guys are saying (typing-for daimross).
(How do I edit my poll?)

Teething problems??? Does this have to do with composites?

It could be 6, 7, or 8.


#10

Go to your initial post and click on “Edit”.

Doesn’t matter, the E500 only carries 4PAX.

Regards,

James


#11

The Eclipse 500 and Citation Mustang seat 6 – 1 pilot + 5 pax although they becomes weight limited.


#12

Yes, but the original criteria was for the carriage of “6-8 pax (any where inbetween)”.

Personally, I think it will be quite a while before the underwriters allow any of the VLJs to fly with a single pilot (except privately owned), especially corporate owned aircraft.

Regards,

James


#13

Why’s that? There are plenty of single pilot operations in light jets, specifically the Citation line.


#14

No track record for the new VLJs, i.e. “unproven” aircraft.

I realize that one of the major selling points for this new class is the certification for single pilot operation, I just wonder if that will “fly” with underwriters.

I know that Linear is advertising their E500s as 4PAX maximum at this time as, AFAIK, they’re planning on two person aircrews.

It’s not just the airframe insurers that have a say in this matter though, businesses often have insurance policies on their individual executives as well as general business interruption insurance and these underwriters have long been loath to allow businesses to “put all their eggs in one basket” without some safety requirements, such as two person aircrews.

$.02.

Regards,

James


#15

That’s a tall order, moving 6-8 1k-1.5k nm? Not many use aircraft like that regularly. Just search the Citation, Lear, King Air, Pilatus, TBM700 etc airborne right now. Go with a new Citation X or Gulfstream.


#16

Single pilot in a Citation requires special certification for both the pilot and the airplane. The pilot is also required to have recurrent training in order to keep the single pilot rating.

If you are trying to move 6-8 passengers 1000-1500nm I would get a Kingair 350 or a Citation.


#17

The extra insurance costs as much as the extra pilot. Better go with the extra pilot.

If that is your regular mission you probably wouldn’t go with a King Air or Citation. Rarely to occasionaly yes. 5-6 hrs in a King Air (with real world wind) … no thank you!


#18

I would think an MU2 would fit the bill well.


#19

Compare the PC12 range and payload to small jets. How many single-pilot jets can take off from Leadville, CO on a “warm” day (50F or more) and fly to either coast nonstop?


#20

mu2 is the best plane for this situation, but I would still go with the E500 not for any reason besides im a huge ecplise fan :laughing: