TSA Liquid Restriction (August 2008)


#1

It’s been a while since we had a good poll around here. The TSA Not making friends thread generated discussion about the current restriction on liquids. I’m just curious how the FA members feel about it…


#2

The problem with this rule is that you can get around it. I could purchase lots of liquids post security and make my explosive. :open_mouth: Damiross in the other thread told of a situation where many terrorists could combine their liquids post security. So to answer your question, this rule should be lifted.


#3

What liquids could you buy post-security to make an explosive?


#4

As usual the TSA is full of crap and being totally reactive instead of proactive. What the airlines need to do is take the lead on this with some good old fashioned profiling. Get the boys from El Al to show you how it’s done. Mixing up a viable liquid explosive on an airplane in any quantity is damned near impossible, but since TSA doesn’t have any good ideas they’ll just keep on using bad ones.

Article below on what it takes to make a binary explosive liquid:

tinyurl.com/eeen2


#5

The solution is to have COMMON SENSE, something the government sorely lacks.

If they feel they must ban liquids, why not allow unopened cans and bottles of commercially produced items like sodas through the checkpoint?


#6

What’s to prevent terrorists from replacing their contents and how does the TSA check them? For that matter, how does one check for Vodka in a water bottle? Taste each one?


#7

Have you ever seen a can of soda? You can tell it has been punctured, even with the littlest hole. For plastic bottles of soda, it is impossible to open it and then close it again without a tell-tale sign of it having been opened.

What’s to prevent the terrorists from carrying 5 bottles of 3 ounces each of vodka? It’s not their religion because it’s already been proven that the end justify the means when it comes to destroying the so-called infidels.

If you look up the word “government” in the dictionary, you’ll see (or it should be in there!) that one of the definitions is “an entity lacking any common sense.”


#8

[quote=“NeedleNose”]

Nothing that I can think of. You can, however, buy lots of things post security that would allow you to make an electronic initiation device. You could also bring many things, including explosives, through checkpoints on your person. Until they electronically sniff each and every person through a checkpoint, prohibiting certain classes of objects, like liquids, is silly.

Even once they start sniffing, you could change the class of explosive you use to avoid detection.

Airport security is about giving the traveling public a warm, fuzzy feeling while making life more difficult for potential terrorists and preventing hasty, ill-conceived acts by those not thoroughly prepared.

Until they make you strip and wear a hospital gown on the plane after having been X-rayed and sniffed and prohibiting ALL carry-on items, nothing is 100%. Even then, I can think of a couple of things that could give them headaches.

IMHO, of course.


#9

Now you’re just being abusoive David, of course I’ve seen cans of soda, I wasn’t referring to them. But it’s quite easy to open plastic soda/water bottles without breaking the security seal cap, it’s even easier to just remove the breakaway security ring afgter opening and replace the cap entirely!


#10

Nope. It ain’t. Let me tell you what happened to me.
I had a 6 pack of Diet Dr Pepper in the car. It got hot. The caps stayed on. There was no indication of the seal on each cap having been broken. However, each of the 6 bottles contained soda that was a flat as a pancake. What happened? The glue in the seal had melted. Due to the fact that the bottles were no longer tigtly sealed, the carbonation leaked out. With no carbonation, the bottles did not have the hard feeling of an unopened bottle.

Same thing would happen if Mohammed try to get a doctored soda through security. He would not be able to get the bottle to seal correctly after the doctoring. The TSA “security” dude could feel the bottle and realize that it had been opened.


#11

Wait wait wait… think now… I you make it so hard for the terrorists to get a bomb on the plane, they’ll just blow up an airport… think about it… more people, greater collateral damage, harder to stop… remember, you can bring sticks of dynamite and cover alot of ground before your first security check…


#12

I think a dedicated terrorist could easily use a needle to aspirate a soda, and refill it with explosive and then reseal the pinhole. It might take a day, but these guys have time. I don’t think TSA has time to squeeze each bottle and try and judge the pressure. I think it should be close to no liquids. Pack your liquids in your suitcase and check it. If they lose your toothpaste, buy more.


#13

Why the hell should I have to pack my liquids into my checked luggage? In the first place, 9 out of 10 of my trips I do not have any checked luggage. Secondly, unless it’s wrapped very well, the chances of a liquid in a bottle getting to your destination is not very good. Thirdly, and most importantly, how the hell do you propose I drink my Diet Dr. Pepper if it’s packed away in the checked-in luggage? I, for one, refuse to pay two or three times the going rate for a soda at the airport.

It’s attitudes like this - “they (the government) knows what’s best for me so I’lll just blindly follow what they say” that is destroying this country. We are fast becoming a nation of sheepl


#14

That’s a fascinating story David.

There’s no “glue” sealing soda bottles, only the mechanical seal of the screw threads on the bottle and the cap.

Mohammad would only need to give a bottle a small shake before handing it to TSA to firm it up, or does soda go immediately flat out on the left coast when you open it?


#15

Funny how WMD’s can be concealed in a 3.01 ounce bottle of liquid and we’ve bought into that theory like compliant sheep. At the same time, we publicly went through the process of obtaining 18 resolutions from the UN and built an invasion force on the Iraq border for how long? A year and a half? But 75%? of Amercians buy into the theory that there were never WMD’s in Iraq? But now we also believe one whack-job govt scientist engaged in domestic terrorism with a small vial (likely less than 3oz) of anthrax. And to top it off, the same govt scientist allegedly off’d himself with a TSA approved 3oz bottle of Tylenol w/ Codeine.

In summary :stuck_out_tongue: pilots, passengers, bottled water and lotion are not the cause of terrorism. Known terrorists and 20million other unknown people walking right into and roaming around our country enjoying the same rights, jobs, houses, credit cards, education, health care, cars, drivers licence and freedoms as the rest of us might be a major contributing cause. A large group of Americans and our politicians always point to Europe as the political and cultural model we should follow. Have you ever entered Europe? Ive always been greeted by several commandos holding Uzi’s, looking at me suspiciously while the passport officer questions me and treats me like a threat to his/her country. Have you ever tried to get a job in Europe? Treating Americans going about their life like criminals is not the solution. TSA and their polcies are window dressing. I don’t doubt there are things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. But after seven years, the same conditions which allowed 9/11 still exist and those 18 known terrorists could still enter and operate within our borders just as they did then. It’s disgusting how all of our Presidential candidates this year keep telling us that health care, education and the economy are what really matter to us. Yet still, nobody is talking about the root causes of this glowing red problem.


#16

I think a dedicated terrorist wouldn’t waste his time making a liquid explosive.

I think the future of terrorist attacks with regard to airplanes will be through ground to air missles, rocket launchers etc. Hopefully we don’t have to see this though.

What liquids could you buy post-security to make an explosive?

Well, I know nothing about explosives, but I was thinking they could make something with the pops, water, and whatever else is sold post security.

Come on people, how much damage could a little can of soda do to an airplane? Put a little hole penny size whole in the plane. I can’t see it blowing up a whole airplane.

Wait wait wait… think now… I you make it so hard for the terrorists to get a bomb on the plane, they’ll just blow up an airport

Bingo, the days of guys being on the plane are over. I bet they are laughing when they see americans treated like prisoners as they go to the prison…that is the terminal.

There were people (I want to say last year?) who were plotting to blow up JFK. Yikes, that would have been a disaster, all while we carry our 3 ounces of liquid through security. :unamused:


#17

Funny. That’s not what was told me when I called Dr Pepper to complain. They said it was glued in. If it was a mechanical seal then the heat wouldn’t have destroyed it.


#18

I don’t think it is glued in. I think Dr. Pepper is lying.


#19

There is a flexible gasket inside the semi-rigid plastic screw cap of most carbonated beverages. The gasket might be glued in place but most often it’s held in place solely by friction. That’s the only glue you’re likely to see, there’s no glue holding the cap to the bottle regardless of what some anonymous phone rep at Dr. Pepper may or may not have told you.


#20

Thy guys that were going to blow up pipelines under the airport? Overblown. You know wat happens if you blow an explosive on or in a natural gas or gasoline pipeline? You have a fire. Nothing blows up other than some dirt and a section of pipeline. Odds are you’d ignite the escaping hydrocarbon and have a fire. If the initial explosion didn’t somehow manage to ignite the spilled material, the worst thing you’d get would be a big flash fire followed by a torch or pool fire. A waste of time of you want to spread panic and terror.

Now use that same explosive mass to take out an ILS and comms and replace them with your own transmitter… of wait, didn’t someone try that with John McClain (Die Harder or somesuch) once? :wink:

Or forget the Prist :wink:

Or… you get the idea. Terrorists can have far greater effect by having some patsy get caught “trying to make liquid binary explosive” and watch the insuing panic and “hightened security measures” that make commercial air travel something of a nightmare in this day and age. Far, far greater effect on our society and keeps them in front of our minds more than anything but a HUGE body count would ever do.

As far as resealing a pop can, that would be trivial. Even repressurize it to about 3 atm with air and use that pressure to hold youe interal repair in place. Or bottle/can your own custom brew on a commercial or surplus line off hours.

Or contaminate the bottled O2 supply on the a/c and then blow a hole in the pressure vessel sufficient to encourage the flight crew to don masks and breathe the doctored mixture. Or open a business supplying O2 generators that don’t make O2. Or…

When you’re backed by the Saud family, you can afford lots of elaborate games, if you want. If you’d prefer more mundane scenarios, I can brainstorm a few more of those as well… Doctoring up a bottle of pop is child’s play.

Again, IMHO. And FWIW.

Tim