Wow, late night. Yea, it’s not the takeoff weight (or the thrust) that makes them heavy, it’s the nasty wake.
Ahhhh…yes it is all creeping back into my scatter brain…tks for the lesson 8)
However, keep in mind that a B752 can be configured to exceed the 255,000lb limit, making it a ‘heavy’ aircraft. ATA was such an airline that configured theirs to be heavy, so that designation followed tiehr callsign wherever they flew.
I believe Condor had the same thing done prior to them getting eaten up by Thomas Cook.
BL.
There was the In N Out crash and a Citation that got rolled up in Billings following a 757 in 1992. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X16242&key=1
The In-n-Out incident was the one that caused the B757 to fall under wake turbulence criteria… at least that was the one I remembered. I believe that incident is still available for reading, as well as the advisories made afterward.
BL.
OK, yes I was aware of the wake turbulence rules following a 757… A couple of times I’ve had to wait the 2 minutes on the runway following a 757 takeoff. Yet, still I seem to see a lot of arriving aircraft following a 757 on final by maybe 3 miles or even less. But I’d never heard a 757 referred to as “heavy” on the tower freq (B753’s don’t come to KSAN) until that AAL with winglets came in that day. Are they doing conversions then?
Some might, but I’m pretty sure that unless they change the configuration themselves, it will not be because of the winglets that a B752 is deemed heavy. Winglets don’t have anything to do with it for the most. Otherwise every B752 with them would be deemed Heavy, which definitely isn’t the case.
BL.
A slight clarification. A 757 only gets the word heavy added to it’s call sign if it’s a -300 or -200 with the modification to increase it’s MTOW.
I thought all 757’s were deemed ‘heavy’. It’s not the weight, it’s the wake.
I think the weight makes them ‘heavy’. But since they are ‘heavy’ they make a bigger wake, because of more thrust. Just what I think… 
In the 757 case, I think it’s the wing.
Could you explain a little more for the dumbo. 
(me)
Google wake turbulence or wingtip vortices.
Ya, I have before. My brain just clicked. Get what your saying. But, if it had winglets, it would reduce the wing vortex, so it is the weight?
all 757’s have special rules when it comes to wake turbulence separation, but not all are treated as actual heavy’s.
Ok. Are you an ATC there at Guam?
it’s wake not weight- on an ICAO flight plan they ask your wake class
This is correct. It is the MTOW that is the factor, not the wake turbulence it produces.
A MTOW above 255,000lbs is the limit, and a normally configured B752 is at that limit. It receives the same standards as far as separation goes that jets above 255,000lbs get, but it is underneath that limit. The aforementioned ATA and others who configured their B752s to exceed that MTOW were deemed heavy; otherwise, B752s are not heavy. B753s all exceed that MTOW limit.
BL.
All planes produce wake turbulence. As planes get heavier they produce more wake turbulence. It was decided that planes of a certain weight needed special separation rules. Then it was discovered that the 757, despite the lower MTOW of the early models, produced enough wake turbulence to warrant it’s own set of rules.
No doubt winglets change the wake turbulence, but how much? Is it enough to reduce the separation? To find there would need to studies which cost money. Then there would need to be a reliable and simple way of that information to controllers. That would also cost money to implement. Then there’s the extra rules and regulations it would mean writing. There’s already a huge amount of information controllers need to know at any one moment for separating aircraft. All for what? Just to save 1 or 2 miles of separation on final for a limited number of aircraft.
Not worth it if you ask me.
Yes
Really! At the international airport?