HA 7 LAS-HNL diverted to SAN 3/14


#1

Saw it land in SAN. It was interesting the way it came in, didn’t look like the pilots were used to SAN’s approach, but they made the landing. Anyone have any info as to why HA7 was diverted?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/HAL7/history/20130314/1600Z/KLAS/KSAN


#2

Not sure on the diversion, but I know why they were not used to that type of arrival.

They came in from the South, which goes directly into the POGGI and BORDR departure streams, which those turn southbound before heading east. HAL7 would have had to descend into that stream to get down. That was probably the faster option than having them come in from the northwest, which slips into the BAYVU and HUBRD arrival streams.

What were the winds at the time? Because they came in with the LOC approach, and that one is a bear regardless of being familiar with it or not (the buildings being that close to the threshold make many a pilot who are use to it white knuckle the stick anytime). I would think that it being an emergency, they would have been given runway 9, not 27.

BL.


#3

Wind were around 10 mph, according to weather Channel app. Also it looked as if the pilots were going to give up on their approach until the last second. Probably urgent.


#4

I am sitting in the departures lounge right now awaiting my own flight and quickly asked one of the passengers what happened. Apparently there was a passenger with a medical issue and they had to divert themselves back to SAN.

Passengers appear to be fairly understanding of the situation. The attendants just brought out some juices for the passengers.


#5

Hopefully the passenger is okay. Thanks for the info!


#6

They are now boarding. They are zipping in there pretty quickly.


#7

From which direction? If from the west, then the tailwind might have been above their limit to accept a runway 9 landing, especially taking fuel into account. So that would make sense.

BL.


#8

From which direction?

Sorry about that. I am a student, so I was trying focus on classwork and find windspeed at the same time. The winds were at 7 knots to 330 degrees according to FA’s KSAN weather page. By lucky chance I was able to see HA 7 come in.


#9

Got it. with it being that calm, and from the northwest, calm win runway was in use, which would be runway 27, unless visibility got really low (read: marine layer), then they’d flip the boat to Runway 9.

Still, knowing the traffic patterns in the area, it would be weird to descend them on the south side of the field, knowing that the BORDR5 and POGGI2 departures climb in that area. Add onto that that HAL7 is either a B767 or A330 and bringing wake turbulence into account, that makes that corridor a bumpy ride for those departing…

BL.


#10

Just out of curiosity, do you have a map of the traffic patterns around SAN. I’ve never looked into the traffic patterns before, and would be interested to know a little more about them.


#11

Yes… but no.

Consider the IFR arrivals into KSAN, and more importantly, the KSAN Class B airspace and the STARs used. I’m going to leave KMYF, KSDM, and KSEE out of the picture for now. But For now, have a look at these:

flightaware.com/resources/airpor … BARET+FOUR
flightaware.com/resources/airpor … %28RNAV%29

The BARET4 and LYNDI3 arrivals handle everything coming from the east and northeast. This puts the arrival stream for those out to the Julian/El Centro/Imperial area coming in bound from the east. Now, have a look These:

flightaware.com/resources/airpor … /HUBRD+ONE
flightaware.com/resources/airpor … /SHAMU+ONE
flightaware.com/resources/airpor … %28RNAV%29

The HUBRD1, SHAMU1, and BAYVU3 arrivals handle everything coming from the Northwest. The only differences between these are that the BAYVU3 arrival is an RNAV arrival, and the SHAMU1 arrival is used in East Operations only (read: Runway 9 is in use). These under normal operations, the HUBRD1 and BAYVU3 will bring you into the area by Mission Bay, turn you eastbound for the downwind, and join final with the rest of the arrivals (LYNDI3, BARET4). This is all pretty much down north side of the field.

Now the departures:

flightaware.com/resources/airpor … PEBLE+FOUR
flightaware.com/resources/airpor … NSAY+THREE

The LNSAY3 and PEBLE4 are used for departures to the northwest as well as oceanic departures. They’ll fly straight out, then make the turn northwest. Only difference between these is that the PEBLE4 is only used for departures off of runway 27, while the LNSAY3 can be used for both 9 and 27.

flightaware.com/resources/airpor … BORDER+SIX
flightaware.com/resources/airpor … %28RNAV%29

The BRDR6 and POGGI2 departures are used for departures east/northeast. This makes a right turnout towards Mexico while staying inside CONUS airspace. Again, only difference is that the POGGI2 is RNAV and used only for Runway 27 departures. BRDR6 can be used for both.

Now… bring the HAL7 diversion. The way it came into KSAN’s airspace and traffic streams, it descended right into the departure corridors for the BRDR6 and POGGI2 SIDs. Why Approach decided to do that outside of an emergency or fuel, I do not know. That’s why I said it was unusual, as I would think that they’d want it coming in with the arrival stream, which would have been north of the field.

A good thing that would help you out further is that KSAN is covered by LiveATC.net, so you could listen to the tower feed for that area. they also keep a 30 day archive of the streams, so if we have the time of the incident, you could browse through the archive and hear the arrival as it happens.

Good thing to also note, is that at this current time (10:20am PDT/1720Z), KSAN is in East Operations (runway 9 in use). It is a rarity that they go to that, so if you want to see how that runs, have a listen in, and also follow the airport tracker/info here, and you’ll get a really good idea how things flow there.

Additionally, while it should NOT be used for real world navigation (I can’t stress that enough), the ZLA ARTCC on VATSIM has a really good diagram on how traffic flows into KSAN. We have real world controllers that work at ZLA and SCT that provided us that info, so it is accurate. But this should definitely help you as well.

laartcc.org/page/vectoring

BL.