Air distasters....whos fault


#1

Unsolved Air disasters…maintenance or human fault.


#2

Yes.


#3

Unsolved. :wink:


#4

Both.


#5

neither

Usually they’re just a strange confluence of multiple unlikely events.


#6

Most tragic air disaster in all history of world aviation


#7

Well, if they hit a road then it’s the "as"phalt.


#8

Wouldn’t maintenance fall under the category of “human”?

Sometimes it’s the pilot’s fault, sometimes ATC, sometimes it’s the mechanic’s. Sometimes shit just happens!

As Allen says, for “unsolved air disasters”, nobody knows.


#9

[quote=“victor131”]
Most tragic air disaster in all history of world aviation


Yep. I watch that air crash investigation show alot.(ACI). That was a dumb move for that KLM pilot. :astonished:[/quote]

#10

[quote=“will744”]

[quote=“victor131”]
Most tragic air disaster in all history of world aviation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyM6_B6AVm4[/quote]

Yep. I watch that air crash investigation show alot.(ACI). That was a dumb move for that KLM pilot. :astonished:

I’m assuming Tenerife here.

How do you come about to that decision? He thought he heard a takeoff clearance for his plane, so he acted accordingly. What he heard was wrong, but that doesn’t make it a ‘dumb move’.

A ‘dumb move’ would be what happened with that Pinnacle CRJ.

BL.[/quote]


#11

Big difference between ATC clearance and TAKEOFF clearance. I don’t know how it was back in the 70s, but to make such a mistake in today’s world is beyond stupid!

It is a matter of record that the Canary Islands flights were the KLM captain’s first “real world” flights after teaching in a simulator for about six months or so.


#12

The differences are because of that disaster. Because of Tenerife, a greater emphases was placed on how pilots and ATC communicated.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_a … y_response


#13

[quote=“tyketto”]

[quote=“will744”]

Yep. I watch that air crash investigation show alot.(ACI). That was a dumb move for that KLM pilot. :astonished:

I’m assuming Tenerife here.

How do you come about to that decision? He thought he heard a takeoff clearance for his plane, so he acted accordingly. What he heard was wrong, but that doesn’t make it a ‘dumb move’.

A ‘dumb move’ would be what happened with that Pinnacle CRJ.

BL.

WTF? the KLM Captain was a moron. we was told twice by his FO (who didn’t have the balls to stand up to his captain) that he didn’t have a takeoff clearance.
In my opinion he was the one responsible for the death of all those people.[/quote]


#14

Nail on the head flyboy! :wink:


#15

[quote=“flyboy97222”]

[quote=“tyketto”]

Yep. I watch that air crash investigation show alot.(ACI). That was a dumb move for that KLM pilot. :astonished:

I’m assuming Tenerife here.

How do you come about to that decision? He thought he heard a takeoff clearance for his plane, so he acted accordingly. What he heard was wrong, but that doesn’t make it a ‘dumb move’.

A ‘dumb move’ would be what happened with that Pinnacle CRJ.

BL.

WTF? the KLM Captain was a moron. we was told twice by his FO (who didn’t have the balls to stand up to his captain) that he didn’t have a takeoff clearance.
In my opinion he was the one responsible for the death of all those people.

You miss the point.

The Captain did what he thought was right. We were not in sitting in the left nor right seat of that flight to judge if what he did was right or wrong. He thought he heard his clearance so he acted accordingly. My point is that he did something that was in safe operational limits of his plane (yes, the outcome was tragic). But comparing that to someone who willingly did something stupid to end up fatal, you’ll see how that is a ‘dumb move’.

Mistake on the KLM pilot to not confirm his call and readback, yes. Dumb that he didn’t, no. Dumb that two drunk pilots took a RJ up to FL410 just to ‘have a little fun’ that resulted in their death? Yes.

BL.[/quote]


#16

Just because the captain did what he thought was right, doesn’t mean it wasn’t dumb.


#17

I hope you never make captain in a large turbojet AC.

Wow- I’m out of face palms but that last statement tyketto made is beyond the realm of what might be safe.


#18

The captain knew he did not have clearance to takeoff. He just did not want to stay there that night, so it cost people there life just because of one stupid captain. :angry:


#19

Will, watch the video in Victor131 post above.

And read the transcript HERE.

Note in transcript that the KLM crew had radio feedback during very critical transmissions from tower and Pan Am. During this time Pan Am announced they were still on the runway and tower told KLM to hold position until they cleared them. All of which KLM never heard.

ca. 1706:13 KLM CAM 1 We’re going
1706:18.19 APP OK.
1706:19.3 PA RT No … eh.
1706:20.08 APP Stand by for take-off, I will call you.
1706:20.3 PA RT And we’re still taxiing down the runway, the clipper one seven three six.
**1706:19.39 - 1706:23.19 [PA radio transmission and APP communications caused a shrill noise in KLM cockpit - messages not heard by KLM crew] **
1706:25.6 APP Roger alpha one seven three six report when runway clear.
1706:29.6 PA RT OK, we’ll report when we’re clear.
APP Thank you
PA CAM 1 Lets get the hell out of here!
PA CAM 2 Yeh, he’s anxious isn’t he.
PA CAM 3 Yeh, after he held us up for half an hour. Now he’s in a rush.
1706:32.43 KLM CAM 3 Is he not clear then?
1706:34.1 KLM CAM 1 What do you say?
1706:34.15 KLM CAM ? Yup.
1706:34.7 KLM CAM 3 Is he not clear that Pan American?
1706:35.7 KLM-1 Oh yes. [emphatically]
1706:40 [PanAm captain sees landing lights of KLM at approximately 700 meters]
PA CAM 1 There he is … look at him! Goddamn that son-of-a-bitch is coming! Get off! Get off! Get off!
1706:44 [KLM starts rotation]
1706:47.44 KLM CAM 1 [Scream]
1706:50 [Collision]


#20

I watched the vid and read that, now what? :stuck_out_tongue: