Track lines dropped


#1

Hmmm, flight track dropped???

flightaware.com/live/flight/N239 … /KTEL/KHXD
flightaware.com/live/flight/N239 … /KHXD/KTEL

Also curious on the routing on flightaware.com/live/flight/N239 … Z/C17/KTEL

DDD030016 MZV030001 GBG030010 PIA210001
BMI210022 DEC030007 MTO210003 RSV240006
LWV060002 HNB

It doesn’t look like GPS coordinates??

Thoughts?


#2

I think the routing is using VOR/Radial/DME information.
Example: DDD030016 = 16 nm on the 030 radial of the DDD VOR


#3

Wow, interesting and makes perfect sense to me.

The flight plan was GPS direct and filed as such.


#4

Exactly what I thought.


#5

Hmmmmm… That’s interesting. So, were those coordinates generated by computer? I notice that the radial numbers are in 30-degree increments. Could I file a flight plan using such coordinates?


#6

What is more interesting is the radials (030 and reciprocal 210) doesn’t match the flight path on the first 6 VORs .

Flight path was from the NW to the SE the VOR radials (if that is what thes are) are NE to SW.

X marks the spots? Triangulation? Dunno :smiley:


#7

Ok, little more information I got from the pilot.

He amended his flight plan in the air for fuel stops and got a through clearance where he kept his squawk code, fueled up and resumed or picked up his clearance.

So while he amended his destination enroute, the clearance was never cancelled.

All was GPS direct filings from airport to airport.


#8

DAL109
Tracking on the map has stopped, but still shows “enroute.”

And on the other hand, SWQ737 today got the arrival message exactly 4 hours early, but still tracking on the map…
Any other flights today out of KATL with issues?


#9

flightaware.com/live/flight/FLG2 … /KDTW/KCID
flightaware.com/live/flight/EGF3 … /KORD/KCID
flightaware.com/live/flight/EGF5 … /KDFW/KCID

Those three have no tracking on the map.


#10

It appears that roughly half of the random Southwest flights that I clicked on to track this morning had either dropped track lines or none at all (and in flight).

Please look into this odd behavior Flight Aware staff.

Thanks for your help!


#11

Check that, the dropped track/missing tack problem is with almost EVERY airline this morning.


#12

Yes you can file using FRD (fixed Radial Distance) waypoints of your own liking. It is useful for nearly direct routing that needs to wiggle a little to deal with airspace, TFRs, etc… However if an existing fix is nearby it is better to use it.
We file LAT/LON for survey work because our survey points are never matched up w/ a fix. It works great here in North America where ATC can use LAT/LON or convert it to FRD using a VOR of there choice. Most controllers that I know prefer Radial/DME definition of waypoints. In Europe we convert the LAT/LON to Radial/DME but with multiple VORs to pick from its a guessing game as to which one ATC would prefer to reference from.

In the end we it’s the same once we hear “cleared as filed”.


#13

To reaffirm what 185driver sez above, I was going to ask how does one file FRD so figure to check in DUATS before asking and came up with the following from their help screen. (note last bullet)

Route of Flight

Enter your Route of Flight without repeating your Departure or Destination Airports. You may use NAVAIDs, Jet and Victor Airways, SIDs, STARs, Latitude/Longitude, and Fix-Radial-Distances. Separate each element with a space.

Except when filing a flight plan (domestic or ICAO) you may enter your route in either DOMESTIC format or ICAO format. If you are filing a domestic or ICAO flight plan, enter the route in that format.

When transitioning between two airways, (e.g. V3 to V318) the system will require you to enter the name of the fix where the transition will occur if it is a published fix: “V3 HUL V318”. If, however, the airways cross at an unnamed intersection, the system will accept the two airways without entering the name of the fix between them: “V318 V400”.
ICAO Format Routes

In ICAO format, fixes (which includes NAVAIDs and latitude/longitude points) must be separated from each other by “DCT” (which indicates a direct navigation between the two fixes). Do not enter “DCT” between Fix-Radial-Distances or Latitude/Longitudes.

Latitude/Longitude points in ICAO format do not include the / character and MUST include the hemisphere information (N/S, E/W). ICAO format also accepts latitude/longitude in either whole degrees or degrees and minutes:

* 3349N09640W    0130S17833E
* 30N075W    32N077W    34N079W
  Examples
      o Direct route from Departure airport to Destination airport:
          DRCT
      o Using NAVAID's (direct route between NAVAID's is assumed):
          ACY MXE DQO LRP
      o Using Airways (enter the Junction Fix between Airways, if known):
          OAK V195 ECA V244 NICOL
      o Latitude/Longitude using Domestic format:
          CVE 3349N/09640W 3448N/09640W 3612N/09547W GNP
      o Latitude/Longitude using ICAO format:
          DCT CVE DCT 3349N09640W 3612N09547W DCT GNP DCT
      o Latitude/Longitude in degrees only using ICAO format:
          DCT CVE DCT 34N097W 36N096W DCT GNP DCT
      o **Using a Fix-Radial-Distance (radial 045 from ADM at 15 NM)
          CVE ADM045015 IRW**

#14

Just to add one more thing.
In the US the ATC computer likes to have at least one waypoint in each centers airspace so each center’s computer can figure out where the airplane is supposed to go next. Apparently LA centers computer has no idea where some VOR in NY is but can figure out lat/long. or FRD IF the VOR is in its own or an adjacent centers airspace.

In Europe doing the type of specialized flying 185driver does requires a little more work from the controller while doing a manual handoff, something they just don’t like to do. For more normal flights they really like you to file airways or at the worst short distance direct routes. It’s all but mandatory to cross an FIR boundary on an airway since the ATC computers still don’t talk to each other between countries. Again in 185s type of flying direct is possible to do but only in those kinds of special cases.

In the Middle East filing flight plans on airways is mandatory, direct is not permitted except on a tactical basis after you are already airborne and then never across boundaries.


#15

Please report with deep links (like flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1 … /KHOU/KCRP) to the flights.

I’m not seeing that problem, but I am seeing another problem with duplicate flights (with no departure time and a probably bogus arrival time for one).


#16

Here’s one

flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA1469

and another

flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA2 … /KSMF/KMDW

I could pick a lot more if you’d like.

Thanks.


#17

Still happening…

flightaware.com/live/flight/CHQ6 … /KCVG/KHPN

flightaware.com/live/flight/EGF4 … /KORD/KHPN

flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU1 … /KRSW/KHPN

flightaware.com/live/flight/AWI3 … /KCLT/KHPN


#18

Add USA1210 to the list.

The flight coordinate log plots a location near the VA/WV border for this KDFW/KPHL flight, but the map track stops in eastern AR.

Updates:

Also add AAL1248 (KORD/KPHL). The KPHL expanded map shows the flight turning westward on a weather holding pattern or diversion, but the current flight map track stops around Toledo.

CHQ5350 (KSTL/KPHL) is on landing approach at KPHL. The flight map track stops around Indianapolis.

In fact, I haven’t yet found a single flight to the northeastern US with a map track that hasn’t been aborted.

The problems extends in the other direction also. AAL1435 is 75 percent of the way to KDFW from KPHL. The flight map track doesn’t go more than a few miles beyond Maryland.


#19

USA 945 as well…departure from KMDT to KCLT drops off shortly after leaving MD into Va…


#20

Hmmm… wonder if something is happening when the planes get picked up by a new ARTCC radar, and out of range of the old one…?
I’ve noticed the same kind of thing happen sometimes lately, right about the area where LA Center hands the flight off to Albuquerque Ctr. Today, I’m closely watching AAL226 cuz the gf is on it. So far so good as she passes by KSAF.