which commuter airline would be great in KOJC airport


#1

hello Merry Christmas to everyone. Here is my question to all of you guys i am holding a pull to see which regional or commuter airline would be great in KOJC JOhnson county executive airport. please pick one commuter airline


#2

Well considering the close proximity to KCI, only a 4,000 foot runway, and with IXD having a much longer runway and only 5 miles away, I would personally say none. Thats not to say it would never happen, but there is really no demand for an additional regional or a regional to leave KCI.


#3

Oh not to mention OJC is not Part 139 certified.


#4

Gentle-people,

This Forum, General Aviation, pertains to the aircraft and people engaged in flying privately owned aircraft. It’s the not the proper venue to discuss airline operations, even commuter airlines.

“General aviation covers a large range of activities including private flying, flight training, air ambulance, police aircraft, aerial firefighting, air charter, bush flying, gliding, skydiving, and many others, including homebuilt aircraft, light-sport aircraft and very light jets.”


#5

Unfortunately, FlightAware has never seen the need to expand the categories. There should be a general aviation discussion forum where aviation, in general, is discussed.

The definition of “general aviation” given by the gentle JHEM is partially correct. Jets in the general aviation category are not only very light jets but also the 737, 707, and, yes, even the A380.

If the traffic is there, I could see an air taxi company operating a 4x a week service to a city that bypasses any nearby larger city. An air taxi can operate a scheduled service between any two given points without having to get certified as an air carrier. As an example, see Ultimate Air Shuttle.

The service would still be considered general aviation because it would be operated by an air taxi and would be, technically, a charter service, albeit a scheduled charter.


#6

I believe skywest and united connection would be best. They are all over the west and could open up a route there.


#7

You’d need to define the route for the commuter to make it work.

In the early 80’s (late 70’s, maybe), there was a grass strip at I-35 & College Blvd (NE corner). The guy ran a scheduled commuter to KCI. I believe it ran for a year to 18 months before he finally threw in the towel.

If the commuter was making connections to KCI, then you’re competing against a drive up I-35/I-635/I-29. It’ll never work. Back in the early 90’s, someone like a Skywest, was considering flying out of KIXD to KSTL when TWA still had a hub there.

To figure out where to go, figure out the demographic of the Johnson County consumer, where they’re traveling to (destination) and then figure out what hub to fly them to. I don’t think it’ll ever calc out to where you could turn a profit. KCI, partly because of their terminal design, will never be a hub for any carrier. Braniff tried, then tanked. Southwest tried, then thought better of it. By not being a hub, KCI had (has??, I don’t know for sure now) one of the lowest ticket prices in the nation.

To get a taste for how well OJC or IXD would do as a commuter location, look at what they did at Scott AFB (MidAmerica) KBLV.

Roger


#8

your right that would not work. perhaps a east coast airline would benifit.


#9

Southwest never tried to make Kansas City a hub because they are a network airline, not a hub-and-spoke airline. Many Southwest passengers make connections at MCI but that doesn’t make it a hub.

Even with the acquisition of AirTran, Southwest won’t be a hub-and-spoke airline. They are planning to “de-hub” Atlanta.


#10

Go to MDW, BWI, or PHX at the right time and tell me it’s not a WN hub.

These airports are “not a hub” in name only.

Also “network carrier” and “hub and spoke” are the same thing.


#11

Add OAK, LAS, SEA, MCI, HOU, MSY, DAL, LAX, ONT, ABQ, SLC, and just about every other airport in the SWA system.

I checked out the MDW schedule. From 06:00 (the first departure of the day) until a few minutes past midnight, there are 198 each departures and arrivals. The are distributed fairly even throughout the day.



hour	departures		arrivals
06:00	7		2
07:00	8		1
08:00	3		6
09:00	22		17
10:00	14		13
11:00	12		10
12:00	8		10
13:00	13		17
14:00	16		10
15:00	12		10
16:00	10		13
17:00	15		11
18:00	8		8
19:00	19		18
20:00	13		19
21:00	17		17
22:00	0		11
23:00	0		4
00:00	1		1


A true hub-and-spoke operation would have banks of flights were many flights arrive in a very short period of time then many flights were depart in a very short period of time about 1 to 1.5 hours later. Southwest doesn’t do that.

It is only because Southwest schedules so many flights into an airport during the day that it is inevitable that there will be a connecting flight possibility.

The following is an article written by Bill Owen of Southwest Airlines’s blog regarding Southwest’s networks.

We’ve all probably heard the old truism, “in the South, it doesn’t matter if you’re going to heaven or hell, you’re going to change planes in Atlanta.” That’s a perfect definition of a hub-and-spoke airline’s route network. When it comes to route networks, there are two kinds of airlines–Southwest and everybody else. All of our competitors operate hub-and-spoke networks, meaning that they serve a very small number of airports where they offer a LOT of flights (those are the hubs), and a large number of airports at which they only provide flights to their hubs (the spokes).

If you live in one of those overpriced and overserved hub locations, you can probably fly nonstop almost anywhere you want to go (if you can afford it). But while some lucky travelers get to fly nonstop, hub-and-spoke networks are built to maximize connecting traffic. Most of these other airlines force 50 percent–and as many as 75 percent–of their passengers to change planes at their hubs. Put differently, if your trip doesn’t begin or end at the hub location–you’re changing planes, pal.

Southwest’s system isn’t like that at all. Our route network is point-to-point–we do our best to fly you from the point that you’re at, to the point that you want to go, nonstop. In fact, despite old impressions that we’re an airline of “milk runs” with multiple stops or plane changes, nearly 80 percent of Southwest’s Customers fly nonstop from their origin to their destination. I’m not just talking about a quick trip from Dallas to Houston or Baltimore/Washington to Providence. We can fly you nonstop from Chicago to Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood or Seattle. Baltimore/Washington to San Diego or Las Vegas. Philadelphia to Los Angeles or Oakland.

We do, of course, publish connecting itineraries, as well as direct ones (that have an intermediate stop, but no change of planes). By offering connecting and direct itineraries in our smaller markets, we can offer those Customers our legendary low fares and excellent Customer Service.


#12

Just about every other large hub is organized similarly these days. UA at ORD and IAH, AA at DFW, DL at ATL, DTW, and MSP, US at PHL and CLT. All use “rolling banks” these days to reduce congestion and maximize gate usage.

Only smaller hubs like DL at CVG and MEM and FL at ATL use distinct large fixed banks. At certain airports an airline will heavy up flights a bit to maximize international connection opportunities since most of those markets have one flight a day (UA has lots of morning arrivals into SFO to connect to their pacific flights and DL and AA have lots of early afternoon arrivals into JFK to connect to their late afternoon/early evening transatlantic flights - but these are for specific reasons, you can’t be a “point to point” long haul airline)

WN can say that they are a “point to point” carrier all they want (and what you posted from them is several years old), but just because they say it doesn’t mean it’s true.


#13

Though it is several years old, there hasn’t been any change to the way WN operates.

All you need to do is to take a look at the route map of Southwest and legacy airlines. The Southwest map shows most cities have multiple nonstop destination. Airlines such as Delta and American show most cities have only one to three nonstop destinations, depending upon how many hubs they have.

This is from the 2010 Annual report; emphasized text is mine.

The Company principally provides point-to-point service, rather than the “hub-and-spoke” service provided by most major U.S. airlines (often referred to as “legacy airlines”). The** hub-and-spoke system concentrates most of an airline’s operations at a limited number of central hub cities** and serves most other destinations in the system by providing one-stop or connecting service through a hub. Any issue at a hub, such as bad weather or a security problem, can create delays throughout the system. By not concentrating operations through one or more central transfer points, the Company’s point-to-point route structure allows for more direct non-stop routing than hub-and-spoke service and therefore better enables the Company to control delays and total trip time. Approximately 73 percent of the Company’s Customers flew non-stop during 2010, and the Company’s average aircraft trip stage length in 2010 was 648 miles with an average duration of approximately 1.8 hours. Approximately 76 percent of the Company’s Customers flew non-stop during 2009, and the Company’s average aircraft trip stage length in 2009 was 639 miles with an average duration of approximately 1.8 hours. The 2010 decrease in percentage of non-stop Customers reflects, in part, the Company’s network optimization efforts,
which included publishing more itineraries with enhanced connecting opportunities and which as a result
contributed to improved load factors. The Company’s network optimization is discussed in more detail below
under “Operating Strategies and Initiatives – Network Optimization; Revenue Management.”

The Company’s point-to-point service also enables it to provide its markets with frequent, conveniently
timed flights. Examples of markets offering frequent daily flights are: Dallas Love Field to Houston Hobby, 25
weekday roundtrips; Phoenix to Las Vegas, 14 weekday roundtrips; and Los Angeles International to Oakland,
14 weekday roundtrips. The Company complements these high-frequency short-haul routes with long-haul,
nonstop service between markets such as Los Angeles and Nashville, Las Vegas and Orlando, and San Diego and
Baltimore. As of December 31, 2010, the Company served 460 non-stop city pairs.


#14

80% nonstop from the old text to 73% in 2010 is actually a pretty big shift.


#15

It’s less than a 9% shift.

The 27% that are not on nonstop flights are not all on connecting flights. Southwest has a large number of 1 and 2 stops flights that do not involve a change of flight.

The point is that Southwest does not operate a hub-and-spoke system. By definition, a hub-and-spoke system funnels passengers into a limited number of hubs and focus cities. On Southwest, almost every airport is a connecting airport.