To unite or not


#1

I pose a question this election year:

With the current state of the economy and the apparant take over of the
White House by the “D” party does anyone feel that there will be a resurgance of union strength within the airlines?

Does anyone feel that the unions have in any way hurt airlines, and in turn contributed to their current issues? Do unions still have a place within the airlines?

Understanding that the fuel has been the major issue that has caused airlines to lay off, park planes, charge extra fees…

I know airline, union differances were what braught EA to an end, but I also look at WN who has union presance throughout…and still makes profit.

Thoughts?


#2

I think unions can be silly, and demand pretty dumb things. The american airlines pilots made some stupid website (called tell your aa story) about how terrible management is. They say they aern’t payed enough even though they are payed more then almost all other pilots save Southwest and Fedex and UPS.

The democrats have always favored unions and the rights of individual whiles the conservatives have looked out more for the financial well being of the company. I think unions are silly to demand anything now given the state of the airlines, and should be happy for their jobs.

I am not saying that unions are a bad thing, but unions can kill companies.


#3

Just throwing this out there: From '06 but relivant to the amount CEO’s make.

forbes.com/lists/2006/12/Tra … ank_1.html

nytimes.com/2007/03/27/busin … ref=slogin


#4

WN pilots of comparable seniority do not make more than AA pilots.

Unions are anachronistic (that means they are out of place in the modern age).

When they were introduced they served an important purpose, they eliminated dangerous work conditions and borderline indentured servitude in the mining and heavy industrial sectors.

However, those problems have been solved. Modern workers have freedom to work for whom they choose where they choose. It should be up to the individual to decide if they want to work for a company for a given salary and work conditions, not some group of lawyers.


#5

I agree with you 100%.
It’s amazing that here int he land of the free that there are some industries where you are required to join a union or pay them tribute if you decided not to join them. These industries include much of the transportation industry and the government (all levels).


#6

Well as per AIRLINE PILOT CENTRAL, Southwest pilots in year 5 make 183 dollars an hour vs American pilots who make 157 and hour. A year 12 Southwest pilot makes 198 an hour compared to 166 at AA. You may choose to agree with this or not, but its there.


#7

I always thought it also depended on aircraft type.
Maybe compare:
A 25-year pilot at Southwest (still in a 737 with no possibility of adding another type)
vs.
A 25-year pilot at American who just found his way into the 777 cockpit for the first time.
Who would make more?


#8

First I’d like to say I’m happy that this has been given some thought. Second I agree to a point with your view. I do agree that while the unions DID serve a stronger purpose in the past and yes, they are almost a thing of the past. I think where they still could be relivant in the airlines making sure pay scales are competitive among carriers, and insuring fair and equal discipline, job selection…

I will say that regardless of union or non-union, the airlines will continue to cut jobs and pay all in their effort to save the company…to which I say you do what you have to do.

My Dad was IAM for his entire time with NW and I can tell you growing up in a house effected by pay cuts is no fun.

TGIF!! Great weekend to all!! 8)


#9

Have you listened to some of these union people? Many of them seem to have little more than a 2nd grade education.

My FIL is in CWA (phone company) and I’d be dipped to let those morons negotiate MY pay.

“Let’s see, we’ll cost $4000 in lost pay during a strike to save you $250 a year on your health insurance…see aren’t we looking out for YOU??”
:open_mouth:


#10

And you can be sure that the idiots running the union aren’t going to lose a dime during any strike! In fact, many of them make 2 to 3 times as much as the people they are supposedly representing. (That doesn’t include the benefits they get like free air travel via biz jet, etc.)


#11

For around 92.5 percent of the non-union, non-governmental workers in the United States, managers have total freedom to hire and fire whom they choose and where in the world they choose. Company officers also decide if they want U.S. workers for their company for a given salary and work conditions. Except for federal, state and local laws protecting their constitutional rights*, each worker stands alone in labor relations with management. That’s Americans freedom of choice. :exclamation:

*http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/


#12

I will say that regardless of union or non-union, the airlines will continue to cut jobs and pay all in their effort to save the company…to which I say you do what you have to do.

My Dad was IAM for his entire time with NW and I can tell you growing up in a house effected by pay cuts is no fun.

TGIF!! Great weekend to all!! 8)

I wish the management would take comparable pay cuts to those of the front line employees. I think it may give these people trust in their management as actually wanting to run an airline, not try to run away with huge bonuses.

Sadly, you are right. Airlines will continue to cut jobs. I wish they wouldn’t sacrifice pay.


#13

I would like to throw another question in this frame work out there:

I bid for a job at another location. While the bid closed I was out of the country on my earned vacation. I was not given the position, but a person jr. to me in seniority was. When I asked what the deal was, I was told “Sorry you were out of town”. When I asked about still getting in, I had to go through a dog and pony show just to be told “Sorry” again.

How is this fair when everything else is handled based on seniority, even though we have no union in place we still act based on seniority for everything else…more time = more vac, more pay, better days off…


#14

You were hosed unless the bid process specifically states you have to be readily available for interviews until the position closes.

No Ombudsman in the company for you foot soldiers? Someone to tilt at windmills on your behalf?


#15

I looked in the employee hanbook, no mention of the need to be available to know of your selection. We are sent “Selection” letters. I’ll see what it says and post.


#16

Interesting Dami that in your newest thread about AS the 2nd article deals with the fact that AS screwed their people. You know I was thinking as I read that article, both AS and the IAM sat down at a table AS looked at their books and said “Ok we can pay this amount over this scale” now when the rubber meets the road AS does what all carriers do, stick it to their “Most important people…‘You all are the first ones our customers meet’”.

I’ll bet AS ends up loosing their appeal, and ends up bringing back the IAM, along with a good amount of the guys who were put in the street.


#17

personally, a union can have a productive place in the workplace but, as part of management, they are the bigest pains in the A$$. The shop stewards will file a greivance overthe most stupid issues. I am not a big fan of the unions.