Only in California


There are few places in the world where on can one fly straight and level for 19 minutes at this altitude. After brunch today we did the valley tour!


Thanks Frank, Salton Sea? Death Valley?


Death Valley. Altimeter is below zero feet. The Salton Sea isn’t surrounded by mountains that tall. The Salton Sea also has water in it.


Furnace Creek Airport (L06) in Death Valley is -210 ft elevation…


“The Salton Sea falls within both Riverside County and Imperial County. Like Death Valley, it is located below sea level, with the current surface of the Salton Sea at about 220 ft (65 m) below sea level.

Prior to 1905 the Salton Sink was bone dry, the failure of a dike on the Imperial River during a flood event on the Colorado River filled the Sink.

The waters have waxed and waned since that time, often leaving vast expanses of lakebed dry and exposed to the air.

“The California State Legislature, by legislation enacted in 2003 and 2004 (SB 277, SB 317, SB 654 and SB 1214) directed the Secretary of the California Resources Agency to prepare a restoration plan for the Salton Sea ecosystem, and an accompanying Environmental Impact Report. As part of this effort, which is based on State legislation enacted in 2003 and 2004, the Secretary for Resources has established an Advisory Committee to provide recommendations to assist in the preparation of the Ecosystem Restoration Plan, including consultation throughout all stages of the alternative selection process. The California Department of Water Resources and California Department of Fish and Game are leading the effort to develop a preferred alternative for the restoration of the Salton Sea ecosystem and the protection of wildlife dependent on that ecosystem. The Secretary of Resources is required to submit a report to the legislature, including a preferred alternative, by 2006 December 31.”

“On 2008 January 24, the California Legislative Analysis Office released a report entitled “Saving the Salton Sea” [12]. The preferred alternative outlined within this draft plan calls for spending a total of almost $9 billion over 25 years and proposes a smaller but more manageable Salton Sea. The amount of water available for use by humans and wildlife would be reduced by 60 percent from 365 square miles (945 square kilometers) to about 147 square miles (381 square kilometers). Fifty two miles (84km) of barrier and perimeter dikes - constructed most likely out of boulders, gravel and stone columns - would be erected along with earthen berms to corral the water into a horseshoe shape along northern shoreline of the sea from San Felipe Creek on the west shore to Bombay Beach on the east shore. The central portion of the sea would be allowed to almost completely evaporate and would serve as a brine sink, while the southern portion of the sea would be constructed into a saline habitat complex. If approved, construction on this project is slated to begin in 2011 and would be completed by 2035.”

As usual Juan, stick to aircraft and commercial aviation.


As usual, you misread what I said. I gave three reasons why I thought it was Death Valley. The first reason MUST be read in conjunction with one or both of the other reasons.

Okay, boys and girls, sit around and listen to my explanations of my points above for this aircraft being over Death Valley.

  1. Altimeter is below zero feet: This does **not **preclude the aircraft from being over the Salton Sea. In fact, if this was the only point for this aircraft being over the Salton Sea then I would have been wrong. This point MUST be taken with the other two points I mention.

  2. The Salton Sea isn’t surrounded by mountains that tall: Pretty simple, eh? The mountains in the background of the photo are the Sierras. They don’t extend as far south as the Salton Sea.

  3. ** The Salton Sea also has water in it**. Hopefully this is self-explanatory even to you easterners. If not, let me just say that there’s dihydrogen oxide, commonly called water, in the Salton Sea.

I am fully aware of the history of the Salton Sea and am aware that it is below sea level. Thank you for letting me know how far below sea level it is. I thought it was just under -200 feet, not withing just a few feet of Death Valley’s lowest point.


I don’t normally like to get into these pissing matches but I’ll throw my two cents in.

David, when contrasting two different things, it is best not to mention things they have in common; highlight their differences. By your original statement that Death Valley is below sea level, I took that as meaning that the Salton Sea is not. You stated that the Salton Sea has water in it. I also took that to mean that it is always full or doesn’t drain and refill, but clearly there are periods of time where it doesn’t or at least not completely full to the point where vast portions of the lakebed are exposed.

The only difference I can see between the two is that the Salton Sea doesn’t have mountains around it “that tall.”

I’m apologize to everyone in advance for fanning the flames with my observations. Pass the popcorn please. :smiley:


I can see where there could be confusion. But as I said, the first statement should be read in conjunction with the other two (preferably, all three together).

By the way, it wasn’t me who started the “pissing match.” It was someone else who wanted to take the opportunity to once again put me down. I apologize to all others except that one person if you were offended or put off by my reply.


Gentlemen, lets get back to aviation! I’ll throw this into the ring.


Get off your cross Juanito, you’re the one who responded to my question to Frank and then started this nonsense with your childish attempt to “explain” your response.

Don’t like having it pointed out when you’re wrong? Don’t reply to my posts and you won’t have any more problems.


So it’s wrong for me to guess (correctly, by the way) where the picture was taken and then have Frank verify it?

I was right. Can’t help it if you can’t understand English, what with that cold weather back east and all.


(end of story)


Is it too late to say…

Death Valley?

Frank Holbert


Could be worse… could be Jackass! :mrgreen:



That’s a gorgeous Super Viking!


Thanks, it gets me around!

Frank Holbert


fholbert (aka Frank) obviously missed rule 2, section A, subsection ii of the rules of FlightAware. Simply put, the rule is that after the 4th post, the thread is free to go off on any random tangent and somehow, it will find its way back around with random tangents always popping up from that point forward in the thread. :laughing:


I had a wife like that once. You’d think I learn.