But they came down NORTH of the runway? Did they overshoot or was the crew attempting to execute a missed approach?
Tough to tell. From the photos I’ve seen online, the wreckage is scattered off the departure end of RWY 30, and the impact marks are generally in the direction of the runway heading. According to an article in The Minneapolis Star-Tribune: “A witness said the plane tried to get airborne again before crashing in a nearby cornfield.”
No weather worries at the time of the crash.
NOUS53 KMPX 311757
OAVMPX
FORENSIC SERVICES MANAGER (W/OM113)
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE
C/O NOAA MESSAGE CENTER
SUITLAND, MARYLAND 20910
INFO: CENTRAL REGION HEADQUARTERS
W/CR1X3
ALPHA CALL SIGN IN AIR: ECJ81 TAIL NUMBER: N818MV??
AIRCRAFT TYPE: H250 BRAVO
BRAVO OWATONNA, MINNESOTA NEAR AIRPORT (OWA) AT APPROXIMATELY
1500Z (10 AM CDT) THURSDAY JULY 31, 2008.
CHARLIE CRASHED ON APPROACH, 10 ABOARD, 6 FATALITIES CONFIRMED (POSSIBLY MORE).
DELTA METAR KOWA 311515Z AUTO 22012KT 10SM VCTSRA SCT021 BKN037 BKN050 18/17
A2986 RMK AO2 P0002 LTG DSNT E THRU SW
METAR KOWA 311455Z AUTO 17006KT 10SM RA SCT018 SCT029 BKN037 19/17 A2983
RMK AO2 P0009 LTG DSNT E THRU S
ECHO KRST 311341Z 311412 30012KT 4SM -SHRA SCT005 BKN025CB
TEMPO 1415 32035G50KT 3/4SM +TSRA BR SCT001 OVC010CB
FM1700 12012KT P6SM VCSH BKN030CB
FM2100 22008KT P6SM BKN040
FM0000 26008KT P6SM VCTS BKN035CB
FM0300 33006KT P6SM SCT250
TEMPO 0812 4SM BR
Wrong about no weather worries. The reports of thunderstorms and lightening in the 2 METAR reports, along with witness reports that they appeared to be attempting a go-around, strongly suggest windshear or a microburst.
Wrong about no weather worries. The reports of thunderstorms and lightening in the 2 METAR reports, along with witness reports that they appeared to be attempting a go-around, strongly suggest windshear or a microburst.
DSNT means distant - as in far away (10+ miles.) Downbursts don’t occur 10+ miles from a storm.
July 31, 2008
Brad Cole, President of East Coast Jets
It is with great sadness that I can now confirm that one of our aircraft, a Hawker 800 business jet, was involved in a crash near the Owatonna, MN Airport.
The aircraft was chartered by Revel Entertainment to transport employees to Owatonna, MN from Atlantic City, NJ.
The aircraft departed from Lehigh Valley International Airport, Allentown, PA this morning for a repositioning flight to Atlantic City International Airport before departing for Owatonna, MN.
I can confirm that two East Coast Jets pilots were on board the aircraft. Their names are Clark Keefer of Bethlehem, PA and Dan D’Ambrosio of Hellertown, PA. We are still working to fully confirm the passengers that were on board the aircraft.
At this time, our efforts are focused on assisting the local public safety agencies that have responded to the accident scene.
We also are working with the NTSB and FAA as they begin to conduct the official investigation of the accident.
We want to express on behalf of all East Coast Jets employees, our determination to attend to the needs of everyone involved in this tragic event.
Further information will be issued through periodic statements from the East Coast Jets Public Affairs Office.
Two Crew and Six Passengers total on board.
Aircraft struck antenna, which stands 8 feet high, and sits 1000 feet from the end of the runway. CVR was found and is in Washington.
Witness video states aircraft was on the ground, powered up and took off, right wing dropped, aircraft nosed in?
News Update Including eyewitness video account.
NOT TRUE. I would be cautious about making such a declarative statement about weather phenomena. The operative word in weather theory is THEORY. I have seen a one mile wide microburst over 10 miles away from an active cell. Besides, The DSNT is a descriptive for the LTNG- not the TSRA. VCTSRA-Thunderstorms, showering rain-in the vicinity-as in close by.
The aircraft hit an 8 ft tall antenna 1,000 feet off the end of the runway?
my best guess-
If two experienced and qualified pilots initiated the go-around, post wheels-down, they probably had insufficient runway to get it stopped but did have enough airspeed to get it airborne. Landing long and then a drop in airspeed on climb, significant enough to stall a wing, sounds like windshear to me. Until the NTSB says otherwise I think they probably did everything they were trained to do. Sometimes thats just not enough- Delta 191- DFW
May they rest in peace
Correct - but the obs don’t show any sign of it. Odds of a microburst flowing 10 miles away without causing any damage (checked the reports site for any non-aviation info and came up empty) and not hitting the anemometer are low.
Besides, The DSNT is a descriptive for the LTNG- not the TSRA.
Not sure what you mean… If the lightning is distant - the thunderstorm is too. The rain is local.
Your patronizing tone begets a retort-maybe in your endless pool of METAR decoding wisdom
No need to be smart, I’m a meteorologist so I was just stopping all the screams of “microburst” and the poster who pasted obs an hour earlier instead.
you could tell us what VCT means. You know-the acronym preceding the TSRA?
Uhh - there is no VCT before TSRA. There is a VC which means VICINITY. For automated lightning (ALDARS) that means at least one strike occurred 5-10 miles away. But the DSNT indicates that most strikes are 10-30 miles away.
Note also that visibility was 10 miles which indicates the rain was VERY light, and they only accumulated 0.02" in 20 minutes which again is a sign that there was no storm.
- Rob
I must fully agree with this, and also add that you don’t need a storm anywhere in the region for a microburst to happen. A few years ago, I was driving thru Wyoming on a moonlit night when suddenly I get hit head-on by the nastiest gust of wind I’ve ever known, accompanied by about 6 raindrops. It was enough to snap a CB antenna and partially fold my mirrors inward (which is hard to do on a big rig). As I was on the side of the road unfolding my mirrors, I looked around the sky, and all I saw were what appeared to be a couple of innocent-looking altostratus in the moonlight. No lightning or rain anywhere, all night long.
That was a dry-air microburst… A shower above you evaporated, and the downrushing air continued to accelerate. That’s a well known weather feature out in the Rockies, but it doesn’t happen in Minnesota.
yeah, i edited the post to remove the smart-ass factor but I guess you replied before my edit posted. My apologies-you’ll have to excuse me, I was under the impression you were patronizing the previous post. (Metar report)
a couple points-
- you can have a storm in the vicinity with lightning distant
- you can have windshear without rain at the surface
- you can have windshear without being detected on an anemometer.
- A METAR is an observation-valid at the time the observation was made.
- Stating, definitively, that a microburst cannot occur farther than 10m from a TS, then reversing that position by chalking it up to the slim odds and local news reporting- is not typical behavior of a meteorologist. -didn’t realize.
But then again, in your field, you are probably used to odds=fact and a high error rate
Of course, but reports say there was no storm at that point, and the witnesses also said the storm had ended.
- you can have windshear without rain at the surface
Of course, but conditions at the time didn’t support that, and the METAR doesn’t indicate it happened.
- you can have windshear without being detected on an anemometer.
True, but the lack of support from other conditions makes that less likely than if this happened during a thunderstorm landing.
- A METAR is an observation-valid at the time the observation was made.
True, but the automated sensor is always monitoring, and if anything approaching wind shear criteria would occur it would issue a special update.
- Stating, definitively, that a microburst cannot occur farther than 10m from a TS, then reversing that position by chalking it up to the slim odds and local news reporting- is not typical behavior of a meteorologist. -didn’t realize.
Not sure how that worded. Downbursts don’t “magically appear” 10 miles away from a storm. On the back side. What I’m saying is that the meteorology doesn’t support it, the witnesses say it didn’t happen, the lack of NWS storm reports indicates it didn’t occur, and the METAR reports say it didn’t occur.
Could it? I suppose if you want a 100% guarantee - I said it could. Do I expect wind shear to be the final NTSB report as the cause of the crash? No.
But then again, in your field, you are probably used to odds=fact and a high error rate
Even better - I still get paid 
We’ll see - I’m going to say the big weather impact here may have been a wet runway. I almost went off the end of an 11,000 foot runway in a Beech 400 many years ago - we landed a little hot and a little long - with the wet runway the anti-skid didn’t slow us at all. It opened my eyes and scared the crap out of me. I learned that you have to hold the pilot flying to touch down parameters to make the landing data good. This sitaution could result in a late (in this case too late) decision to go around. It’s just a thought.
Some talk on pprune website regarding the possibility of the lift dump system playing a role in this accident. On page 7 of the accident report below of a Beech Premier - is a description of the lift dump system.
Hawker Lift Dump System
The Hawker has effective and large wing flaps, so typical landing approach speeds are around 115 knots and runway requirement is under 3,000 feet. The Hawker is a very easy airplane to land smoothly and is one of the first, if not the first, jet to have a lift dump system. When the main wheels touch you pull way back on the big speed brake handle and the flaps quickly deploy to 75-degrees down and the spoilers extend. Lift dump really plants the airplane on the runway for braking efficiency, and the drag of the huge flaps means you almost never get the thrust reversers out of idle power before you are turning off. (Paragraph from 850XP)
N200PR AAIB accident report a Beech 390 Premier written off in a runway overrun after problems with the Lift Dump System.
May all those lost rest in peace. My thoughts are with those affected by this tragedy.
Board meeting is set for March 15th, Final Report expected to be released shortly after the meeting.
It should be noted that the Premier Lift Dump is not the same type of system as used on the HS125 series, and as such does not include the flaps as part of the system. The Premier’s speed brakes only are incorporated into the “Lift Dump” system. The same holds true for IAI Westwind and Astra series aircraft. The Lift Dump are composed of boards on the upper wing surface only, and do not include the flaps.
The HS125 series is unique in this aspect. There are very few, if any, other aircraft that use this same type of Speed brake/spoiler/flap lift dump combination.
@bizjets101, Thanks for providing the update.
The National Transportation Safety Board will hold a Board meeting to consider a final report on a 2008 plane crash in Owatonna, Minnesota. The meeting will be held on Tuesday, March, 15, 2011, at 9:30 a.m., in the NTSB Board Room and Conference Center, 429 L’Enfant Plaza, S.W., Washington, D.C. The Board will also deliberate on a Board Order addressing the NTSB Most Wanted List.
On July 31, 2008, East Coast Jets flight 81, a Hawker Beechcraft 125-800A, crashed while attempting a go-around after landing on runway 30 at Owatonna Degner Regional Airport, Owatonna, Minnesota. The nonscheduled domestic flight crashed killing the two pilots and six passengers.
A summary of the Board’s final report, which will include findings, probable cause and safety recommendations, will appear on the website shortly after the conclusion of the meeting. The entire report will appear on the website several weeks later.
capitolconnection.net/capcon/ntsb/ntsb.htm Video Link - the board meeting coverage should begin around 9am March 15/11.