Incorrect Call

I came across a series of videos on YouTube about flight instruction and something caught my eyes and ears on this one:

I came across a series of videos on YouTube about flight instruction and something caught my eyes and ears on this one:

Human error :slight_smile: Probably flies a Cessna more often then not, forgot he was in a piper and out of habit called out Cessna.

Quite amusing to hear him check to see if the engine “stalls” when he pulls the throttle to idle.

State I think decides whether it’s legal to dump fuel on the ground. FL and CA come to mind with heavy duty restrictions, but I don’t have first hand experience in either state. MS, where I live, I just dump it on the ground. I have heard people say it’s best to dump the fuel away from the plane. I have not lit any fires by dumping it underneath my wings.

Cheaper then the real deal, but I say one gets what they pay for. Nothing like the real deal baaayyyybeeeeeee.[/quote]

Heh, I meant that if I keep doing those things, I am going to spend all of my money to get my pilot’s license.
Money is the only thing keeping me from doing it.

Lieberma, where do you get your mis-information? CA has no such restrictions.

Frank Holbert

Alan, it’s a Fed EPA thing. And it’s not an acceptable practice any more. Sump fuel should be collected and disposed of at a site designated by airport management.

If it’s a fed thing with the EPA, why doesn’t the EPA REQUIRE fuel collection points at** every** public airport. There are none at my airport nor at KJAN (commercial airport) nor have I flown to any that had any collection sites for me to place my sumped fuel.

It’s not unusual for me to see a bead of water and be rest assured, that fuel won’t go back in my tank if I have no other place to dump it :wink:

I only hear about the “gatts” requirement at CA and FL airports, thus my rational for thinking it was a state driven requirement. (Frank, I did say I had no first hand experience)

I guess the news is correct. There is a model called a Cessna Piper. Did it have Shag Carpet too?

IIRC, I believe that it’s an EPA thing. But I have long since discarded the letter I received outlining the issue from my home airport. I do know that airport has set-up and designated a collection point for sump fuel. And I have a 5 gal. bucket that I use and periodically dispose of it’s contents at the collection site.

If we can’t find something in the mean time, I’ll check with my airport management on Mon…err Tue due to MLK day.

EPA … :laughing: I’m based at a commercial/military airport and there aren’t any fuel collectors around so we just toss it on the ramp and it evaporates in 10 mins, its never caused a problem.

Don’t know abut dumping fuel on the ground here but I remember once a refueler spilled some fuel on the ground and they had to rush and get it cleaned up because apparently asphalt soaked with fuel = bad…

If leave fuel on the ground and a taxiing airplane that has a prop stops right over it, it could cause erosion to the leading edges of the prop, the same is said for standing water.

I’ve never seen an airport with a designated fuel dumping place. I just toss the fuel samples on the asphalt. Some instructors say, put it back into the tank if it’s a good sample, but Like Allen, I also sometimes get water droplets. I’m not chancing that I have an oversight and accidentally put that and any dirt debris back into the tank…The ground is definitely the best option for me.

The EPA would have a fit if they knew what a common practice this was for all pilots.

There are some states that have laws against the dumping of fuel on the ground (and enforce them) and there are some states (Texas) that really don’t care what you do.

If there is no designated place to dump the fuel, I don’t think anybody would argue with you if you dumped it on the ground instead of putting back into your tank if it has debris or water in it.

At what point do you have to drain the tanks on the plane if you see water in the sample? Is it something that can be done by the pilot, or does it require an aircraft mechanic?

The sumps are precisely that, low points in the system where water can separate out of solution or suspension and collect to be removed. If you get more than two samples from the same sample point that show more than trace amounts of water it would behoove you to seek a mechanic’s input to thief the tank. (This consists of using a stick covered with water finding paste, a paste that changes color when it contacts water, to gauge how much water might be in the tank.)

Conversely, I’ve known pilots who blamed leaking fuel caps for water incursion in their tanks who would sample repetitively until they got a “clean” one at each sample point and then go flying, having “cleaned out all the water”.

I’ve also known of pilots in cold climes who filtered their fuel (both Avgas and JP4) through cheesecloth in order to filter out any ice particles.

No, I didn’t fly with them!

Yea, back to where it came from!

i worked at a nuclear power plant in arizona for 10 years. When we run our back up Emergency Diesel Generator once a month, we have to refuel its 80,000 gallon underground tank asap, it takes about 100 gallons an hour. We run the diesel for 12 hours minimum and we have 3 reactors with 2 diesels each. that equates to about 7200 gallons of fuel and the truck brings 7500-8000, they return with 0 gallons, the rest we/they dump on the bare ground. im sure a few ounces on pavement wont hurt anything.

I find that very difficult to believe.

It’s true, I had never heard of such a restriction until I went to simcom in Vero Beach and watched my instructor have a heart attack when I dumped the fuel on the ramp. Apparently it’s a pretty steep fine.

Wow, 300-800 gal of diesel, at what, maybe $2-3 a gal back then, left in a really big puddle to evaporate. Stunning thought. Did you ever see this? It must take several hours to disappear.

EPA’s interest in fuel spills is driven by air quality more than water quality or pavement quality. Little spills everywhere add up to a big problem. This article is about the problems just from people overfilling lawn mowers. It adds up.

(Of course, saving sump fuel in a bucket only helps if it’s covered, to prevent evaporation.)

I wonder why the regional differences in enforcement and awareness. It’s federal, and it’s been since ~1990-95.