Delays Begining March 20th!


#1

You can get ready to experience an increase in delays beginning March 20. The FAA in an effort to increase safety will no longer authorize controllers to utilize TIPH (taxi into position hold) procedures unless certain criterion is met. The requirements basically have to do with staffing and the number of positions required to be open in order to conduct TIPH operations. Most every small airport and probably all contract tower airports will be unable to comply. Many large airports will only be able to conduct such operations during specific periods throughout the day.


#2

I’ve been reading about this for a few months and the original impression I got was that it was going away entirely and my impression now is that they’re just removing the “position and hold” privilege from small airport, likely class D and small class C airports. I’d be shocked if any class B airport didn’t have TIPH between ~7a-10p local.


#3

This was already threatened by the FAA last summer and since then has been regarded as one of the worst ideas ever. The original plan was to ban TIPH and then it would only be permitted if the Air Traffic Manager at each facility deamed it unsafe and/or un-efficient.

It don’t think this will happen, and it’s IMO more rumor than truth.

Jason


#4

I don’t think so… from the NBAA August, 2005.

" FAA Requesting Towers Validate TIPH
In response to NTSB concern about the use of the “taxi into position and hold” (TIPH) procedure, the FAA has directed all ATC tower managers to undergo a simple review process to validate the operational necessity of TIPH at their airports. This action will ensure that TIPH is only used at airports where an operational benefit or need exists due to traffic volume to mitigate delays. TIPH will continue to be used wherever it has proven capacity and efficiency benefits, which is likely to be the case at high-demand or congested larger airports. Operators at airports that continue use of TIPH will see no operational changes as a result of this review. Operators at airports that discontinue TIPH should see no operational impact on time required to taxi and depart. Direct questions to NBAA’s Bob Lamond at rlamond@nbaa.org. "

I could not find any news on the web signifying March 20. Where did you get that silverplate ?


#5

" could not find any news on the web signifying March 20. Where did you get that silverplate ?"

FAA GENOT requiring facility action and effective date March 20. I think it will be inetresting to see who plays and who does not. Some class B airports will not.


#6

I looked some more and could only find references to March 2005. How about a link or reference ? After all, this is the Internet… :wink:


#7

From Avweb
Taxi-into-position-and-hold (TIPH) clearances can speed up operations but they can also put aircraft in direct conflict if things go awry and recent stirrings suggest the FAA may be moving toward a nationwide ban on the practice. According to numerous e-mails received by AVweb, the practice will officially end March 20, but FAA sources weren’t able to confirm that for AVweb prior to this publication. Already commenting, however, the National Air Traffic Controllers Association says the ban will have something opposite of the desired effect on safety. NATCA spokesman Doug Fralick said eliminating TIPH will make it much more difficult for controllers to judge how much time is needed to ensure the runway is clear for the next aircraft on approach, ultimately decreasing an airport’s flights-per-hour capacity while adding more variables to a controller’s equation. If the plane taking off is already on the runway and ready to go, the departure time is easy to predict, but if the next plane in line has to maneuver onto the runway, perhaps backtrack and get turned around, seconds can easily turn to minutes and the chance for conflict grows. “Therefore the likelihood is that spacing on finals will have to be increased, once again decreasing capacity while at the same time the FAA is doing all they can to increase capacity,” Fralick noted. He also said the FAA is using a blanket approach to the issue when there are many airports that have never had a problem caused by TIPH. “The bottom line is that the loss of TIPH will make the airport environment a more dangerous place than it was before,” Fralick said. “I couldn’t imagine not being able to use this time proven tool.”


#8

*On Aug 1, 2005 the FAA mandated a review of procedures, not an end to TIPH. *

AVWEB Aug 11, 2005
"FAA spokesman Greg Martin defended the action. “The primary intent of this notice is to be a wake-up call to the facilities, to take a close look at taxi into position and hold, and see if they need it,” he told AVweb on Tuesday. “And if they don’t need it, don’t use it. …This is due to a recent spate of operational errors and subsequent loss of separation.” He added that pilots will not be affected. They will know whether the procedure is available or not because they will be talking to the controllers. “Dallas has already reviewed their procedures and verified that they need [tiph], so they will continue to use it,” he said. “As will most facilities that have shown a significant increase in volume.”

not to worry about March 20…

Naples Fl. is a small airport with contract controllers. The volume of traffic here can be responsible for ground departure holds for northbound traffic. TIPH is alive and well here.


#9

The criteria is that in order to use TIPH (which the FAA seems to forgot was changed to PH when they removed taxi-into from the phraseology) is that in order to use it, the manager must consider it operationaly neccesary AND all positions must be staffed, in other words we can not combine tower position with ground and must always have a seperate CIC. This would make it impossible for several lower grade facilities to use it.

For example at my airport there are 4 positions which must be staffed; Local south (south runway controller), Local north (north runway controller), Ground/Clearance, and CIC (controller in charge, which according to these new guidelines can not be combined with any operating position.) In a typical day there is one person working Local N/S combined and the ground/clearance controller is acting as CIC, therefore we would have to double the amount of people in the tower to use position and hold.

Another thing that will happen more is people being cleared for takeoff by controllers using anticipated seperation, which is perfectly legal, if they feel that an aircraft has reduced its speed and SHOULD make it off the runway by the time the aircraft that was cleared for takeoff enters the runway. Problem is that when the preceeding aircraft misses that intersection the 2nd aircraft that was just cleard for takeoff will be told to cancel takeoff clearance and exit the runway thus causing them to get back in the end of the line and wait.

It’s all outlined in GENOT 6/15 which is effective march 20, 2006


#10

Quote: “Naples Fl. is a small airport with contract controllers. The volume of traffic here can be responsible for ground departure holds for northbound traffic. TIPH is alive and well here.”

Naples will not as of March 20.


#11

Just received update on this and effective 3/20 GENOT 6/15 WILL take effect the FAA has granted a TEMPORARY exception for the 35 busiest airports (which correct me if I’m wrong is where the recent problems have occured.)
So apparently today it is safe to put aircraft into position, however starting Monday it will no longer be safe.?. Now that’s the FAA for you.


#12

The 35 airports you mention must still apply for waivers stating what procedures they will use. Operational procedures that the controllers use will change in an effort to conduct TIPH more safely however this will be transparent to the user. Many samll airport will not use the TIPH at all.


#13

Seems like the reason for the new regulation is because of high profile incidents at major airports such as the incident at LAX a year or two ago but then by the time it’s watered down enough, all the major airports are exempt.


#14

Many of the smaller airports have been granted a waiver to the ENTIRE GENOT and will continue to do things like the GENOT never existed. This is the FAA at its stupidist, but at least we’ll be able to continue things normally (read: efficient) as controllers.


#15

I take it then STP got a waiver. SUS tried but we were denied, so I guess starting tomorrow no more position and hold.


#16

STP did receive a waiver and I just read some information from NATCA that any facility that requested a waiver was granted a waiver:

From NATCA:

I just got off the phone with Dave Madison reference the TIPH GENOT that was to be implemented today. He told me that all facilities that put in for a waiver received them and all the facilities that I pointed out to him, like Santa Barbara and Little Rock, put in for them once they were called by FAA HQ to explain their reason for not submitting a waiver request. Dave stated that part of the managers job was to provide service to the users.

If there are any facilities in your region that have not put in a waiver request and feel that the safety and efficiency of their operation is being impacted, please provide me the name of the airport and I will make sure Madison is aware of the problem.

Now as to the agencys intention with this issue. Madison stated they are putting together a Safety Management Team which will look at risk mitigation at all the facilities that have a waiver; they plan on having this done within the next 30 days. They also talked about making changes to the 7110.65 within 180 days to reflect the status of TIPH procedures.


#17

This is exactly what the Chief at Naples told me today, “they (Naples) were called by FAA HQ to explain their reason for not submitting a waiver request.”

He said under the original plan that it was so restrictive to operate under a waiver that he didn’t put in for it, until FAA HQ called. The request now is complete waiver from the GENOTS.


#18

You can follow the shenanigans over at the FAA by reading the NATCA presidents web log. John Carr has this story nailed for everyone.

themainbang.typepad.com/

You might have to go back a few days to see some pertinent info on TIPH.