Collapsed R main landing in Denmark - everybody walked away


#1

Liveleak
liveleak.com/view?i=ed8_1189365556


#2

How come they didn’t feather or shut down the right prop? I’ve never flown twins, but isn’t that standard op procedure when you believe you have a problem? Just askin’

Tim


#3

I was wondering the same thing…The crew obviously new that they had a gear problem as evidenced by the CFR equipment following them down the runway. When they new they had the runway made they should have feathered the prop. I cringed wondering how many shards of that composite prop breached the fuselage, potentially causing uneccessary injury to passengers. As one of my colleagues mused “maybe it has to do with the fact that the captain just got his type rating last week and the first officer was a new hire with 250 hrs TT.” An unfortunate reality of the regionals… Hopefully this event will become a focus issue for SAS’s (All for that matter) training programs. I seem to recall that it was a technique that was at least mentioned at FSI’s KingAir training events that I attended…


#4

Pure BS speculation!

Conditions with so-called regionals in other countries may be different. They may actually enjoy flying their whole career on smaller aircraft.

Why would an airline allow a pilot to become a captain just after getting his type certificate? Wouldn’t most, if not all, airlines require a type certificate prior to upgrading to captain. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if most airlines and/or government aviation agencies didn’t require the first officer to have the type certificate prior to flying.

Lastly, the word is “knew” and not “new”.


#5

While the comment made was sarcastic speculation, you obviously (aswell as most of the flying public) have no idea about the predominantly low time regional flight crews out there. And yes after some time in the right seat you achieve the type rating to move to the left. 1500 hr captains and 250 hr first officers at some regionals is not uncommon. The reality of low pay regionals is you get what you pay for and attrition is high at some carriers. Mesa is having a problem right now. As soon as a poverty level paid pilot gets some experience, he’s gone to a Jet Blue or an Airtran. And that’s if they’re willing to put up with the BS long enough not to jump ship from aviation altogether. And before you start to rant at me about that. I’ve known former military pilots that were laid off from the majors go on to other lucrative corporate (non-aviation) careers. And regional pilots quit to go and make more money selling cell phones for Verizon. European airlines train pilots from no experience at all to 250-500 hrs. and put them directly into the right seats of jets. Lufthansa and Sabena are two such airlines that do that with their ab-initio programs right here in the PHX area.

And lastly…my use of “new” in “new hire” is correct!


#6

If you meant it to be sarcastic, you should have said so. It’s not always easy to tell in written words what is sarcastic and not sarcastic.

In any case, what I was getting at is that you cannot judge a foreign regional carrier by what happens with USA regional carriers. It’s an entirely different culture.

This is what I was referring to.


#7

You know this for fact or is this your opinion???

If so, please provide some written reference so we can judge for ourselves.

Allen


#8

Do I really need to answer this? Are you saying that foreign countries (e.g. Denmark, Sweden, Spain, Mexico, Japan, Australia, Kenya, Botswana, Vatican City) are the same as the USA? It’s not my opinion, unless, while I was on vacation, the national sport of the USA became rugby (like in Australia) or soccer (like in the UK and many other countries.


#9

Hey, c’mon! Everybody walked away! Those guys are HEROES!!!
Well, okay, that’s what I’d expect to hear from the media :laughing:


#10

Very true… As I believe I have chastized you for the perceived sharpness of a written word…Further, it wasn’t my statement.

As I posted above, not necessarily…

European airlines train pilots from no experience at all to 250-500 hrs. and put them directly into the right seats of jets. Lufthansa and Sabena are two such airlines

Early in my career I was afforded the opportunity to crew some serious equipment with low time. Now with much more experienced hindsight, I’m glad that those earlier years were for the most part uneventful :open_mouth:

[quote=“damiross”]

Ooops…I no…er, know better than that… :blush:


#11

Absolutely! just the way you want it to work… I’m not blasting the crew, but it’s scary to see the prop blades turn into shrapnel that could’ve changed that happy ending.


#12

Mixing apples and oranges chief. Above are countries, You were not refering to countries, yes, they have different cultures as you state above

Your words below, let me remind you for your convienance

Give me something that tells us that a foriegn carrier differs culturally then a USA regional carrier.

YOUR OPINION, unless you have something for us to read that foreign airlines are an entirely different culture.

And yes, I have flown different foreign airlines.

Durn runways look the same, dang, taxiway lights are color coded the same, I’d bet the Boeing jet has the same operating procedures that American carriers have. Gee, do I need to go on???

Oh shucks, Air Italia forgot my ice in my drink! Is that what you mean?

What exactly is a different culture in a foreing airline that you allude to above? Inquiring minds want to know.

Allen


#13

The different cultutre he may be refering to is the crew hiring. It is VERY common in EU for the right seat pilot of anything to only have several 100 hours. That is UNLIKE the U.S. crew hiring culture where the SIC would have around 1500 min before they are picked up by a major.

This is not opinion. I work with EU and US pilot everyday. I carry dual citizinship (Hungry) and earlier in my carrier could have gone to work in Europe with 300 hours and my Comm. Multi. Inst. Today I’d be left seat of something big. This BTW is the only carrier disision that my wife and I regret.

If that’s the cultural difference Dami is reffering to, then I agree with him.


#14

Thanx for the clarification! At least U have something to back your position called Xperience.

Still waiting for Dami’s.

Allen


#15

Hear What Theyre Saying: The Influence Of Culture On Cockpit Communication
Confronting the Boss Indirectly: Study of Cockpit Crews Fidns Co-Pilots Use “Hints” to Correct Captains
Cultural variation of perceptions of crew behaviour in multi-pilot aircraft


#16

Thank you, now your statement has some credibility.

Allen


#17

Cultural issues aside, this incident has more to do with procedural training and experience.


#18

Second SAS Q400 Experiences Landing Gear Problems


#19

Bombardier Urges Airlines to Ground Q400 Turboprops
The article says that aircraft with more than 10,000 cycles should be grounded.


#20

Anyone think maybe they had a ‘possible emergency’? If the gear light was not coming up green but visually the gear appeared to be down and locked, they may have been trying to land hoping it was a light problem. In that case they may have kept the engines spooled up for a go-around at the first sign of trouble (in this case obviously came too fast).

The landing looked like they were not expecting the gear to collapse. The fire equip suggests they had some problem. I dunno, just guessing. We have at least 1 flight a week that requires the equipment to stage (warning light) but usually turns out uneventful.