C32 757 KLNS (Bush) Altitude Question


#1

I’m one mile (under incoming runway eight) from KLNS where Prez Bush’s 757 landed this a.m. Can you please let me know approx. altitude of C32 at this point. thanks!


#2

It’s a military aircraft. Military aircraft are not usually tracked, especially if the President is aboard. Please read the questions/answers if you have any other questions on this.

As far as hight at a given distance for a particular aircraft, you MIGHT be able to find the answer by looking at the approach plate. For LNS, go to flightaware.com/resources/airpor … procedures


#3

Depends on a number of factors, but probably around 500 feet a mile from the runway end.


#4

Do you have pictures?


#5

A standard glide path is a 3 to 1. So figure 300’/nm.


#6

Kind of a useless reply.

Most VFR pilots don’t know how to read an approach plate and not even knowing if realtorfouryou is a pilot, would be even more rediculous to suggest for him (or her) to refer to or interpret an approach plate not designed for public consumption.

It would have been more helpful to give him an answer like leardvr did and then give him a reference if so desired so at least he could try to extrapolate what you gave him.

And even then, telling him / her that they live 1.5 miles from LRP or one mile from missed is asking much for them to understand much less extrapolating an altitude that isn’t printed on the chart in profile or plane view.

Allen


#7

I’m not a pilot but have studied various aeronautical charts and plates over the years. So unless I’m missing something it seems like a person could interpolate the altitude on an approach chart.

As an example, it seems to me that if the altitude at the start of the approach is, say, 6000 feet and the distance to the runway is 12 miles. It seems to me that if the pilot is on a continous rate of descend then at 6 miles from the runway he would be at 3000 feet, 3 miles at 1500 feet, and 1 mile at 500 feet (the altitude CAFlier mentions).

Unless I’m exceptional (which I don’t think), it’s really not that hard to read approach plates, especially if you read them in conjunction with the explanations of the charts as provided by the FAA.


#8

Gee guys. Do you think that Air Force One operates IFR?

Even if the ac is cleared for the visual approach - we’re talking large jets here - they are operated by the book. The book calls for flying them even on a visual with reference to the ILS, and most any airport a 757 would go into has the ILS.

ILS08 for KLNS is here:

204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0709/00927IL8.PDF

Run the numbers and the approach is the standard 300ft / nm. Thus, 1 mile from the end of the runway the aircraft was 300 feet above the TDZE of 399feet [look at the chart]. So the C32 was 300ft AGL or about 700ft MSL a mile out. Thats on glideslope.

I am an instrument rated pilot so I did not have to stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.

If you look at the approach plate - the FAF [MANOR] is 6.3 miles from the threshold and you cross it at 2461 feet… Subtract TDZE of 399MSL from that gives you 2062, divided by 6.3 [vertical feet divided by distance in nm] gives you 327ft/nm. Add 327 to 399 and you get 726ftMSL, or, 327ft AGL. You have a TERP designed to level you off at 200 ft a little more than 1/2 from the end of the runway so you have time to acquire the runway visually in a stable position if the vis is poor. Thats the altitude of the cockpit of the aircraft if the needles are centered. Don’t forget that in this case, you have a 30 foot tall airplane from gear to top of the tail. Moreover, while 6800 feet is ok for 757, it is likely the pilots landed the airraft 500 down the runway and the procedure is designed to put you on the runway 1000 feet down the runway in the touchdown zone. They have the Pres on Board and most likely do NOT want to using max braking and lots of reverse which can get uncomfortable and excite the secret service.

Did you have lots of vans with antennas and men in work overalls and dress black shoes in the neighborhood this am? hahahaha


#9

You must be exceptional…

You apparently forget John Q Public could care less about what the symbolism on an ILS or LOC RWY 8 means or for that matter, what they mean. The chart doesn’t exactly explain what 599 1/2 (200-200 1/2) means. The chart doesn’t explain what the 6.8 LPR flag means along with the .5 LPR flag. Oh gee, what does the 2500 and the 2461 mean?

Lightning bolts on a chart? Is that a thunderstorm warning??? Lines criss crossing all over the chart, person must have had a defective spirograph or tied one on.

I toss these numbers and symbols at you because it really means nothing to a non aviator or VFR pilot (assuming the person is indeed not an IA pilot).

We don’t even know the age of the person posting (I haven’t looked at their profile)

The question was a very simple question that deserved a very simple answer. Leardrv did it in 12 words (counting a number as a word).

You need to remember the audience we address just may be not as computer savy or as aviation savy as you are. They step up to the keyboard asking for answers.

KISS

If for anything the person seeking an answer. I am sure they will thank you for that.

BTW your link didn’t “in conjunction with the FAA” on how to read approach charts.

Allen


#10

Not talking about John Q Public here. The way I figure it is if someone is on this site then he (or she or it) has an interest in aviation. If he (or she or it) has an interest in aviation then this person would like to get more data (“need more data” as Number 5 says) on the subject.

Did I not say in conjunction with the FAA’s explanation which a person can find by using Mr. Google’s or Mr. Yahoo’s search engines?

It would be nice to be given the answer but, in my (not so exceptional) ways, I’d love it for someone to tell me how to find the answer.

That’s cuz I didn’t give a link. See my reference to the two guys above.


#11

Soooo, gee wiz, you ask me for directions on how to get to point A to point B. I tell you read the map as the answer is on there. I now just told you how to find the answer to your question. That answer is OK???

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOUR REACTION.

Come on guy, get real. Your response to the question was absolutely useless to the John Q Public regardless of expertise level. After all, it was their first post.

If you don’t know the answer, don’t answer the question but to tell somebody read the directions (in this case an instrument approach plate) when they are coming to US for guidance on a simple “how high is an airplane over my head” well, your response is waaay behind the comprehension of my simple mind.

Your go to Google response again is just as useless, see above.

H#ll, I have troubles using Google on approach plate specific questions, and I have some earthly idea on how to read these things, to John Q Public, it might as well been Morse code.

.–. . .- -.-. . / — …- -

Allen


#12

FlightAware is used by a lot of people, and not just pilots and enthusiasts. A lot of people learn about the site when searching for airline flight tracking sites (which is how I learned about this site).

This person’s interest in aviation could be no more interest than “I just saw the president’s plane.” Perhaps they got a photo of it and want to post an image of it on a Web site somewhere. They may want to put a caption with the photo saying “President Bush’s Plane As it Flew XXX Feet Overhead”. That isn’t exactly what I would call an interest in aviation.

You can actually get a feel for how much knowledge they have from just the few words in the question they ask… :bulb:
I sense this person has a bit more interest in aviation than the average joe, but not enough to extrapolate altitudes from an approach plate.


#13

I watched the C-32 come in here once as AF2. They flew the ILS on a bright and sunny day. At the outer marker they called it with gear down and three green just like all the other military flights we see.

I’m just glad they didn’t run out of fuel. :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

Ironic part is that most likely, if they could have extrapolated altitudes from an approach plate, then they probably wouldn’t have posted the question in the first place. :open_mouth:

Allen


#15

Unless they didn’t know about the approach plates being so easily accessible on FlightAware and other web locations.


#16

Has nothing to do with the original question in which you didn’t provide an answer. The original question was how high was an airplane over my head one mile from runway 8 at KLNS.

If they had the knowledge on extrapolating altitudes from an approach plate, I’d be betting they already know of web locations for approach plates whether it be here or elsewhere AND like I said before and will say again, they probably wouldn’t have posted the question in the first place.

Common sense my friend something Google and search engines will never provide.

Allen


#17

Now you’ve gone and done it! Accusing me of not having common sense! That’s unt… wait, you’re right!!! :smiley:


#18

Dear Sirs: I’m very, very grateful for your help regarding my question yesterday, having seen and counted the bolts on the belly of Bush’s C-32 yesterday! My son is a novice pilot and my godson flies for JetBlue; however, no one was available. Besides, although I am not a pilot, as my email denotes, I love learning daily. I’d already looked through the plates, and ass-umed an answer. Y’all have confirmed that my house is 300-500 feet below incoming aircraft. Interestingly, most of the time I’m not bothered, but the hell i chopters, esp. from Indiantown Gap, drive me nuts because the house even vibrates. Thanks so very much to all of you for your time, efforts and input. Now, quit squabbling :smiley: Most sincerely, Basha


#19

Au Contre: From books.google.com.

Edited to add that if you want Common Sense for free, try Here!


#20

Well dang, what doesn’t Google have? :smiley: