Probably one other reason ATC asked Delta if they were having any indication problems with the instruments was, the accident was in the area of KLUMP, the LOM. This is part of the approach, right?
but if mod - sever turb was forecast [to be verified]
just could have been a good bump on the way in, which knocked down the ias for a moment, activated the stick pusher and started all the fun ā cept if crew reacted re. windshear r/t stall
assuming these guys could fly ā we have to ask ā
why did the ias read so low? [did they let it go there? ā -nah!!!]
why did they pull back to override the stick pusher? [did they forget stalls 101? naah!]
soā
only a windshear reaction explains why the capt pulled up and overrode the auto stick pusher downer
he did exactly as they train u in windshear training ā cept for the AND THEN GO AROUND part ā no matter ā it was too late then anyway
Wellā¦Iām not a DHC-8 piloto. But, from my experience in corporate turbo-props and jets Iāll offer thisā¦ With a clean config Va at the estimated landing wt. of 143 kts, Iād add 10 just because, and another 10-20 for the icing conditions. But seeā¦Iām used to flying my current TJ ride at 170 kts. to a 5 mile final, at my home airport, to comply with the app controllerās request as he/she attempts to maintain spacing.
youāre awesome ā just explained something else
thatās why on the tape they took delta 1998 thru the loc before they knew there was a crash
atc even says itās for spacing ā
must have been cuz colgan was way too slow
chheeeesh! everyoneās way too nice these days [course being buffalo, i understand ā cold weather, warm people, as we say!]
you should have heard those BOS controllers yelling at me to keep the speed up way above v-lo or v-fe ā and once i started down on the ils ā gs, that a/c did not want to slow down, going downhill [duh] ā till i pulled the power all back, meaning the lg horn blared all the way in ā not to mention itās not that great to go to idle on turbocharged pistons
course if u didnāt comply ā they just sent you out again to get in line for the ils ā and they were fine with doing that all day, till you learnedā¦
i must have loved my crm training so much cuz they were training everyone to be as pushy as i am [only when necessary ā and as courteous as possible, of course]
in reality, after scaring the crap out of the pax [and me] ONCE ā with the horn blaring ā i thought it thru
and the next time
i figured out that if u keep the speed up to the om
then as the g/s wiggles u pull the throttles back and keep the nose up, the a/s drops quickly ā then once youāre below flap 10 speed ā drop them ā then v-le is next ā [now, if only i can duck down at 1000 fpm or so till i catch that slopeā¦]
once the gear is down, youāre way below what atc wants on final, but since youāre inside the om, tough on them ā theyāre stuck with you
and the pax can then thank you for the nice flight, rather than rushing away to change their shorts
donāt u agree captain mel?
[and i donāt know about u, but eal only allowed us that one tiny pilotās suitcase ā even for a 4-5 day trip ā so i never wanted to have more than one pair shorts/day packed in it.]
as was demo-ed to me somewhereās in my first 10 hoursā¦
youāre turning to finalā¦you steepen the bank to make the turn and/or kick in a little extra rudder to help it aroundā¦
course with a steeper bank, u begin to lose altitudeā¦
so u haul back a bit on the stickā¦
itās called an accelerated stall!
usually if youāre banked left, the left wing is low [duh] [say around 45 degrees?]
then at the stall, the right drops much more violently [say to around 90 or 100 ā esp. if u throw in power and yank that nose back upā¦]
does this sound familiar?
the ntsb wrote over hundred pages on the cory lindell crash in nyc ā and this is what they concludedā¦
and i did hear at one point that the same team that wrote that is doing the work on this one [but i have no confirmation of that yet]
again ā to my simple mind ā not sure it matters that much
may not know what kind
but
there was a stall
there was a spin [flat]
there is no recovery from those at 1000 agl
iāll go get my budās email to me 'bout that ā heās the 747 driver whoās instructed all over the world ā one of the few pilots iāll agree knows way more than i ;-] ]
and you do too, iām sure, cap mel
oh rite ā forgot ā canāt cut and paste onto here, so if u want to read it you can go see it at www.airline-crash-analysis.com
would you believe me if I said the aircraft gave a stall warning (stick shaker or pusher) before it was in any turn? and the pilot over reacted to that which then started the chain of events that put them in the ground? Just a thought as well. I think Iāve mentioned upset but it was just in regards to the whole mess.
Iāve actually done stalls in transports as well, the dash is a transport right? I get to do stall recovery and unusual attitude recover every 6 months in the jet I currently fly (its the most fun a person can have at times, try it while IMCā¦). All I can say is this sure made a mess of an aircrafts pretty clean record.
I have lurked here off and on - I fly for business, and I smile each time I hear my Mom tell me that I ātravel all of the timeā because I know that itās nothing compared to guys that are in the air everyday. My hobbies have tended toward race cars, but I am always fascinated by aviation.
Anyway, I wanted to thank you guys for this discussion. I lost an ex-colleague on the plane, and another ex-colleague was the gentleman on the ground. Yes, those two that perished worked together in the same plant for a number of years. I was only there with them for two years, but knew both well enough.
As a scientist, even though I donāt understand all of the lingo and the aero details, this helps me to understand and cope in my own way.