Does airport administration have access to blocked number flights?
Nope.
Blocked for one, blocked for all unless selective unblocking by the aircraft owner is used.
Allen
Seems unfair – that means the local authority has no way of knowing who or what is using the airport.
Why???
Public grounds funded by public funds? No different then you using the interstate system.
Allen
I would suggest that any appropriate authority could access slot allocation info/atc logs of movements/ r/t transcripts etc. at airports/airfields or directly from the FAA if it really wanted to see what was going on!
IN (UK)
Giselher is based at an UNCONTROLLED airport where movements are not recorded on tape. There would be no record of VFR traffic coming in or out of his airport unless someone sat there 24/7 recording tail numbers of arrivals and departures. IFR, there would be a better chance of a paper trail, but not exactly like a controlled airport since ground movements are generally not recorded.
Not quite sure the motivation behind his post, but he isn’t happy with the noise level of the airplanes based on his past posting history.
Allen
[quote=“lieberma”]
Allen,
You misunderstand me. I am unhappy providing free service to corporate fat cats, who do not have to pay a landing or ramp fee, yet CAN legally fly stage I and/or stage II aircraft directly over my house despite such being forbidden by the established flight rules.
HOWEVER, that was not the motivation for my question – I realize that the interstate highway analogy is attractive, but let’s extend it: the local police DO enforce the traffic rules, they DO keep a watch out for drug dealers on the highways (using profiling whether or not they admit to such or not), but someone (such as MS13) could easily transport a significant quantity of narcotics with no fear of detection from one uncontrolled airport to another, couldn’t they? As it is now, at the local there is NO record of ANY activity, either VFR or IFR.
What FAA flight rule is being violated? Established ATC written procedures are the rules for IFR, no ands if’s or buts about it. VFR, it’s see and avoid. Local noise abatement rules are “advisory” in nature and safety of flight trumps any noise abatement rule.
We have been through this before which only verifies you are just trying another avenue to troll about noise abatement. YOU ARE NOT providing any services to any plane or pilot are you? Read what you wrote above. If so, what “services” do you provide to airplanes and pilots???
No different from interstates, what you describe above.
FAA do conduct random ramp checks at random airports to insure that pilots and airplanes do comply with FAA regulations. flysundance.org/january06.htm scroll down a bit for an example of what takes place during a ramp check.
Your argument has no merit as ramp fees won’t change published ATC procedures…
Allen
Allen, You seem otherwise to be such a nice guy, it’s hard to believe you show the same arrogance that the chief pilot of N943JB does. Unless we can change that attitude, I fear there is no hope to get “civilians” and aircraft jockeys talking in a reasonable manner.
We have been through this before which only verifies you are just trying another avenue to troll about noise abatement.
As in the previous discussion, over which you are seemingly still steaming, YOU are the one who brought up noise abatement. Why are you so defensive about it? Have you had complaints lodged against you?
I moved away from the real bad noise, where I presently am is NOTHING
compared to being under the take off runway for BWI in the era of Stage II 727s! FWIW I hope they do expand the local airport and bring in as many corps as they want, because a law mandating phase out of Stage I and Stage II of ALL weights is about to be passed, which will make the local airport much quieter than it is now, especially when the jet guys force the piston guys out of the area – because the jet guys are the big corps with the big political “donations”, not you piston guys. And Besides that, I have already started negotiations on a house which is at least 15 miles from ANY airport, which is a quite difficult feat.
YOU ARE NOT providing any services to any plane or pilot are you? Read what you wrote above. If so, what “services” do you provide to airplanes and pilots???
Again, Allen, you exclaim, proclaim, and display your overweening arrogance. By which extent rule must I be a pilot, or in a capacity providing a “service” to airplanes or pilots, in order to ask an innocent question? Besides, I think I DID provide a “service” to at least ONE pilot - you got to release your bile, didn’t you?
No different from interstates, what you describe above.
FAA do conduct random ramp checks at random airports to insure that pilots and airplanes do comply with FAA regulations. flysundance.org/january06.htm scroll down a bit for an example of what takes place during a ramp check.
Thanks for the site reference. I did know that the FAA does conduct checks at random, at random airports, BUT I doubt very much that they are out at an uncontrolled field at 0200 - although, I admit I may be wrong about that.
Your argument has no merit as ramp fees won’t change published ATC procedures…
Allen
I don’t care if they change published ATC procedures. MY question was directed at evaluating the gaps involved in the ability to counter drug traffic by the increasingly ubiquitous MS13. If they aren’t in your area already, just wait a day or two!
Have you EVER seen a pair of shoes tied together hanging from an electric or telephone line? I’m told that is a sign that a dealer has marked the area as his[her] territory.
Now, take some prozac and chill out!
I AM NOT [REPEAT] NOT making a claim. I AM repeating what was told to me by a member of the local police. But I will check your site. thanks.
I’ve never thrown shoes into trees OR power lines, but if I did, and I didn’t, but if I did, it was for an entirely different reason. I am not a member of a gang! Sometimes I do where red, but only when I fly, never on the streets. I guy in a (Crimson) Wazzu shirt was shot and killed here. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/252/521893218_85f2f3f458_s.jpg
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070530/NEWS/705300319/1033/NEWS01
No arrogance here. I just want you to realize that we fly by FAA rules, not local municiple rules.
You stated pilots violated ESTABLISHED FLIGHT RULES by flying DIRECTLY OVER YOUR HOUSE. These are your words not mine. Time to call you out on the carpet and find out what rules these planes are violating by overflying your house. You lose credibility if you quote a municiple rule, as we don’t fly by those rules.
Maybe I missed interpreted discussions.flightaware.com/view … c&start=43 and your response, but sure seem like your response was to noisy airplanes?
You sure are sending mixed signals here. If you are not complaining about noise, then the type of plane shouldn’t make one bit a difference eh??? you shouldn’t care whether a slow moving Cub comes in or a Boeing 747 comes in or what stage engine is attached to that jet? Only reason I can even fathon you care what stage plane comes in is for noise level. What other reason could there be? You don’t proclaim yourself as an aviation enthusist or a plane spotter or watcher. If it’s not the sight, it must be the sound bringing your attention to look up?
Again, in your original post, you said, “I am unhappy I provide a free service”. What service do you provide to your local airport pilots and airplanes? Those were your words, not mine, so I am asking again, what free service are you tired of providing?
You don’t come across to me as a bonifide plane spotter, so what difference does it make to you if a MS13 (which I have no idea what it (they) are and really doesn’t matter to me) or a C172 comes in to land or a Regiona Jet? Only thing that probably draws your attention is the noise level?
Nah, I live a drug free life, I chill out at higher altitudes where the air is cooler and calmer.
Allen
Allen,
I’ll have to get back to you later. I’m rushing out to get to an anti-airport protest meeting!!!
Say Hi to all the other NIMBYS!
PS There is a railroad line about five miles from my house. At night I can hear the train blow its horn and I can hear the train engine chuggin along. Think I’ve got a case?
Hey, Allen!! Wanna see a REAL troll!
Not to go off in another direction, but don’t you think a pilot should at least TRY to be a good neighbor? I realize that safety is paramount, but how is not flying runway heading for one mile NOT safe, when that is what every other pilot using the field expects?
You stated pilots violated ESTABLISHED FLIGHT RULES by flying DIRECTLY OVER YOUR HOUSE. These are your words not mine. Time to call you out on the carpet and find out what rules these planes are violating by overflying your house. You lose credibility if you quote a municiple rule, as we don’t fly by those rules.
But, if the airport has a “rule” book that is published, specifying the heading to be used upon departure, aren’t aircraft required to adhere to local airport rules until they have reached ATC control altitude? I was told they were to adhere to local rules until that altitude by a commercial airline pilot. Was he lying?
And Allen, it’s not “these planes” but ONE corporate jet, the pilot of which has been REQUESTED to PLEASE follow the procedures ALL THE OTHER pilots at the airport follow.
And if local rules don’t count because the local airport has accepted the mis-named and disingenuously called FAA funds, then why can’t they just truck in their own jetA?
And I know you have been to the local airport in the past & I offered to show you the rule book on your next trip, but somehow I don’t really think you are interested.
[quote=“Giselher”]
As in the previous discussion, over which you are seemingly still steaming, YOU are the one who brought up noise abatement.
Maybe I missed interpreted discussions.flightaware.com/view … c&start=43 and your response, but sure seem like your response was to noisy airplanes?
[/quote]
Yes, you did misinterpret my remark at that point. I was merely pointing out that it is well nigh impossible to be more than 15 miles from any airport, (I’ll add – especially on the eastern seaboard). And if you recall, just as in this discussion, YOU were the one who brought up the subject of noise mitigation. I assure you, I have had my fill of discussing noise mitigation with pilots & airport authorities – they simply are NOT interested. I will add, however, I sincerely hope that the hype about the Eclipse being quieter than Stage IV is NOT just hype.
[quote=“Giselher”]
II 727s! FWIW I hope they do expand the local airport and bring in as many corps as they want, because a law mandating phase out of Stage I and Stage II of ALL weights is about to be passed, which will make the local airport much quieter than it is now,
You sure are sending mixed signals here. If you are not complaining about noise, then the type of plane shouldn’t make one bit a difference eh??? you shouldn’t care whether a slow moving Cub comes in or a Boeing 747 comes in or what stage engine is attached to that jet? Only reason I can even fathon you care what stage plane comes in is for noise level. What other reason could there be? You don’t proclaim yourself as an aviation enthusist or a plane spotter or watcher. If it’s not the sight, it must be the sound bringing your attention to look up?
[/quote]
Well I don’t mean to send mixed messages; however, in the cited passage I was merely pointing out that I was quite familiar with what aviation noise is, as opposed to what it WAS, and what I HOPE it will be in the future. I thought I was making myself clear that, although I was lied to by the local authorities as to the presence of jet aircraft and the possibility of expansion to accommodate more jet traffic, I was more…much much much more accepting of aircraft noise than some others in the community. I just don’t particularly enjoy having a Falcon 2000 flying directly over my house at less than 1000 feet AGL, especially when his flight path is supposed to be 500 yards to the left of my house, over open roads and fields. It’s almost like the guy is doing it deliberately at this point.
If it’s not the sight, it must be the sound bringing your attention to look up?
Not to get off the original subject, but that one sentence tells me that you do NOT, and most likely never will understand the discussion about aircraft noise and its effects.
[quote=“Giselher”]
Again, Allen, you exclaim, proclaim, and display your overweening arrogance. By which extent rule must I be a pilot, or in a capacity providing a “service” to airplanes or pilots, in order to ask an innocent question?
Again, in your original post, you said, “I am unhappy I provide a free service”. What service do you provide to your local airport pilots and airplanes? Those were your words, not mine, so I am asking again, what free service are you tired of providing?
[/quote]
My taxes, paid via air carrier ticket taxes and fees that go into the AIP are going to keep the local airport in business. They are also being used to provide for extending the runway and making other improvements to “attract” more corporate G-V, Global Expresses. Somehow, I think the likes of Oprah, Bill Gates, Mark Shutterworth, etc, etc. should be able to afford to pay a landing fee.
[quote=“Giselher”]
I don’t care if they change published ATC procedures. MY question was directed at evaluating the gaps involved in the ability to counter drug traffic by the increasingly ubiquitous MS13. If they aren’t in your area already, just wait a day or two!
You don’t come across to me as a bonifide plane spotter, so what difference does it make to you if a MS13 (which I have no idea what it (they) are and really doesn’t matter to me) or a C172 comes in to land or a Regiona Jet? Only thing that probably draws your attention is the noise level?
[/quote]
I am NOT a bona fide plane spotter. I do have a casual interest in the mechanics of flight, what the various parts are and why and when they are used in flight, but I freely admit that I now fly only as a very last resort and I am horrified that some people actually think nothing of hopping onto an airplane for a trip of less than two hundred miles. I admit that my personal shortest trip would be probably 500 miles, if I absolutely had too.
And to forestall your next assumption – I have flown across the Atlantic several times while in the service & I have flown across the USA, but I do NOT enjoy flying.
I realize that many (perhaps even most) people do enjoy flying - the more power to them.
Now, Allen, you really MUST pay a bit more attention to other than aviation news! There really are things other than airplanes! MS 13 stands for Mara Savaltruca 13 and it is the name of the reportedly most violent, and most rapidly growing hispanic gang. They are heavily into drug trafficking. You really should do a google search and read up on them.
[quote=“Giselher”]
Now, take some prozac and chill out!
Nah, I live a drug free life, I chill out at higher altitudes where the air is cooler and calmer.
Allen
[/quote]
And I hope it will stay that way & that you will continue to enjoy the higher altitudes … but please: avoid my house!
We already talked about this in our previous thread. See discussions.flightaware.com/view … c&start=24 for reminder.
Also remember, when we fly runway heading, that means magnetic heading, not ground track. Get the winds blowing east or west, I can fly runway heading 34, but my ground track will take me well off the extended runway centerline. So, you just may want to pay attention to which way the winds are blowing. If you happen to be at the end of runway 34 and I take of on 16, fly the runway heading, and your house is off the extended centerline, those winds aloft just may take my flight path over your house. We cannot use ground track as once we enter the clouds, we have no ground reference so whether it be visual or IMC, runway heading is magnetic heading, not ground track.
There are no regulatory FAA rules other then what we have talked about in regards to above. Again FAA rules trumps anything you may have locally.
Noise abatement rules are advisory, not mandatory. I’d suggest you talk to that ATP and ask him for an FAA reference and I am not so sure he will come up with anything what you say above. I keep bringing up noise abatement as I have never heard of any other complaints about living around an airport other then airplanes making too much noise, thus you referencing your so called “rule book”…
At your airport, ATC control can begin on the ground for IFR flights. I can pick up a clearance on BWI clearance and delivery 129.525 So ATC control can begin at 0 AGL.
Airport can establish traffic patterns based on noise sensitive areas, but when it comes down to decision making process at an uncontrolled airport I am pilot in command and safety comes first. There are no local rules that can override my decision making process as long as safety is considered first.
My flight guide for your airport as discussed before says runway heading to 400 feet. This is an advisory, not mandatory. If I need to turn out sooner due to a bird in my path, you can bet your bottom dollar, that is what I will do. Sounds to me that Falcon is actually going higher then 400 feet, but I am not there to observe, you are.
My flight guide says to make right hand turns on 34. This is an advisory pattern at your airport. I am expected to fly the published pattern, but if anything in my mind dictates that I fly a left hand pattern, as pilot in command, I can do so. Would I do so on purpose, nope. I do try to be a good neighbor and figure that pattern was determined for my safety or noise abatement purposes so we pilots can be good neighbors…
The primary reason I am not interested is that it does not trump FAA regulations. It’s that simple. Local rules mean nada when it comes to airport operations or aircraft movement. FAA dictates what I do and not do in the operation of an aircraft. My flight guide assists me in navigating in and around your airport. Key word is that it’s a guide, not regulatory or mandatory.
Then why are you bringing up these questions about aircraft flight patterns? You are not sitting in your back yard watching for the enjoyment. You keep harping about planes are flying over your house. Exactly what point are you trying to make then if you are so hot and bothered about planes flying over your house? Could it be the noise factor?
Again, I ask, why are you so concerned about the aircraft flight patterns if noise is not the primary reason? Plane at that altitude won’t fall on your head. If the engine quit right there and then, you probably are in the safest spot. I repeat, why so concerned about flight patterns if noise is not your primary concern?
You still haven’t really answered my very direct questions. Sounds like the above, you are concerned about noise factor living around an airport?
As I stated earleir, landing fees won’t change the published ATC procedures. It won’t reduce traffic, corporate america will pay the fee, just as I would if I had to. Again, why are you posting other then to reduce the noise over your houe. You haven’t provided anything to show that planes are operating illegally over your area. That airport is public and funded accordingly. It’s not a private airport just as the interstate roads are not private roads.
I also pay the very same taxes. So that argument just doesn’t make the cut. Just because you elect not to fly or use Westminster airport doesn’t mean that you are paying more then your fair share of the federal funding.
Again, I will re-ask you, what is the problem with a plane overflying your house if noise is not the primary concern for you? A plane 1000 feet AGL over your house is no physical threat by any means, so that can’t be the issue. Exactly what point are you trying to get across?
To re-iterate my questions in my original post which you seem to duck are:
What rules these planes are violating by overflying your house. Again FAA rules are the only rules that apply in airport operations. The answer will probably be none.
What service do you provide to your local airport pilots and airplanes? The answer will probably be none. Paying taxes as you stated in your reply is not a service to me. Everybody pays, not just you, therefore you are not providing a free service.
If noise is not a concern to you, why are you so stressed over stage 1 and stage 2 engines? Answer is probably because one engine is noisier then the other.
So, in the interest of staying with the theme of where we are posting, this will be the last I comment on this particular thread as just like the last one, we have beat this topic to a pulp and not contribuing to what the forum was designed for.
Allen
The question begs, who was there first, the homeowner or the airport? If the homeowner moved in AFTER the airport was built, which is 95% of the time, my feeling, Shut the HELL up! You knew there was an airport there when you bought the house, don’t complain about the noise now. If you didn’t want the noise, I’m sure there was a quieter neighborhood you could have moved into.
Ya, know you guys are WAY WAY too defensive. If you, for instance, would take the time to actually READ the thread, without letting your bile get in the way, you will find that Allen was the guy who brought up noise.
Now, perhaps YOU should take some prozac and CHILL OUT