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 Post subject: TSA Problems in Rochester, Minn
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:23 pm 
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scow2ed - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:00 am
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Since Continetal is blaming the TSA for going home, for the reason given as to not being able to unload an airline for 6 hours, I would like to know a few things.....

Why in the hell wasn't the head of the TSA in Washington called in the middle of the night to fly up and unload the plane so the people didn't have to suffer?

Why wasn't the head of Continetal called at home to come out and unload the plane so people (including crew) didn't have to suffer?

Why isn't CNN, MSNBC, or Fox sitting on the door step of the President(s) of all the companies invloved, bothering their wife and kids in the driveway, until he gives a reason why people suffered on their airline(s).

Why wasn't the Top Manager at the Rochester Airport called and sent down to unload the bags and passengers, so the people didn't have to suffer? (His airport gets Federal Funds to allow it to be an alternate.)

Why does congress need new airplanes, to replace the ones that can't make it to Dubai on 1 tank of gas. So they don't have to SUFFER as these people did.

Thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 pm 
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pthomas745 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:00 pm
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Money.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:11 pm 
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mfling - FlightAware user avatar

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TSA wasn't part of the problem - you don't need TSA to depart an aircraft, only to rescreen if the boarding area integrity wasn't maintained overnight. Since TSA came back on duty early the next morning, letting pax deplane for the waiting room wasn't a problem - unless spending money for off-shift staff was an issue for ExpressJet or the Rochester airport.

Ultimately the pilot is responsible and should be fired. And don't give me that "duty hours" bunk. FAA allows 2 additional hours of duty time for unexpected delays even if they were at their 16 hour limit - which I doubt. Getting pax to the curb and on their way wouldn't take two hours.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:13 pm 
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scow2ed - FlightAware user avatar

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Boy, you hit nail right on the head, as far as canning the Pilot.....

After posting, I was looking for something else, and I came across interviews from some of the passengers.

This is a real CLUSTER F**K from Continental .

It seems other flights (other airlines) were diverted also, they had buses come and took their passengers to Minn/St Paul by 1.30 am.

Delta offered their extra space one of their buses, and yep you guessed it, Continental DECLINED.

The airport manager stated it was a Continental problem also.

So why doesn't common sense apply and let the aiport Manager come out and override the pilot when he is sitting on private property with the engines are wound down.

Because he doesn't want to lose revenue.

I don't care about the technicalities of the law on planes, but when you are being held hostage and no one is coming to help, an outside party that is aware of the situation should be obligated to do what is necessary to aliveate the situation. In this case call in the authorities and release the hostages.

Thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:37 pm 
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EatSleepJeep - FlightAware user avatar

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This is only going to blow up more and more as the news orgs pick up the story and start putting mics in front of these passengers. These passengers could have pedaled a bike from Rochester to MSP before the E145 made it there, provided they could bike at 9.5mph, which isn't hard. I can barely stand being on a E145 for DSM>IAH.

It's a federal crime to disobey an out of control flight/cabin crew that won't let you out of a stinking tube, but there's no penalty for them holding the entire plane hostage.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:51 pm 
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QuickBurn - FlightAware user avatar

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AP story via msn: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32361238/ns ... ?gt1=43001

Flight Tracker Perma-Link


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 Post subject: Re: TSA Problems in Rochester, Minn
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:31 pm 
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fholbert - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:00 pm
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scow2ed wrote:
Since Continetal is blaming the TSA for going home, for the reason given as to not being able to unload an airline for 6 hours, I would like to know a few things.....


That simply isn't true. I've landed on the last Air Carrier flight of the night at both Ontario and John Wayne several times. TSA is long gone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:12 am 
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wazzu90 - FlightAware user avatar

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After 2 hours I'm getting off. Go ahead and try to stop me! :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:39 am 
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redlegsfan21 - FlightAware user avatar

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TSA usually does have to stick around and I'm saying this from personal experience. There is always three TSA agents at the airport until the last plane leaves and I remember when we had a diversion, TSA had to stay until that plane leaves (which the flight eventually cancelled). There may be a law or a regulation there but I don't know it. I know though it would be just for boarding a flight and not deplaning because TSA is long gone when we just have inbounds remaining.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:45 am 
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IADFXMD11HVY - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:00 am
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Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/200 ... erview.cnn

I think this is not a shock. To the extent that the crew was probably very Jr. and not making correct decissions. How in the hell a Capt. and f/o can sit cramped in their seats for all those hours is crazy, let alone all the people in the back. I know from dealing with diversions in the past eventually even the crew starts getting pissed that they are on the plane and demanding they and their pax be allowed off. Someone somewhere within the Express Jet dispatch dropped the ball with misinformation to the crew. I can tell you the Capt. had the ability to say I want these people off the plane and should have been calling anyone and everyone to make it happen. I was at IAD and an Egypt Air B747-300 div from JFK, along with a ton of other flights. Customs was processing the diversions along with the daily intl. flights. One of our competitors was initially dispatched to handle the Egypt a/c. The plane sat on a hardstand for hours. Late in the afternoon we get a call that we were supposed to handle the a/c. I was sent out to see what the crew needed. I got on the a/c and the door was closed behind me so the stair truck could be switched to one of ours. Their were people laid out on blankets in the aisle, spread out in the seats with feet across the aisle...and the smell!!!! Wow!!! I make it up to the cockpit and ask the capt what I can do for him, that I was told by JFK the wx was lifting soon, he had the option to fly up. He pulled his seat back crossed his arms and said "I've been sitting here all day,I'm not going anywhere, now what are they going to do for these people?" I got on the cell and let my boss know how pissed the capt. was, called Customs, called the airport and made arrangements to deplane, all 443 pax. The point to my story is why the hell DIDN'T the capt. seem to be alarmed by the fact his company had in essance dumped him and had no plan? I have come across all kinds of crew from GA to airline, they want the best for their pax everytime they go somewhere. I hate to say it but discipline for the crew is not a bad idea, BUT I'm not sure termination is the correct course.

As a final note, when the Egypt a/c left the next morning, he had his w/b sent down from JFK along with his other flight papers. I notice on his papers the load had been factored based on the initial pax count from the day before. I pointed it out and let the capt. know MOST of the pax had been sent by other flights the night before, and his pax count and baggage count were lower. I gave him the correct numbers, this pissed him off and he thanked me and said he'd be dealing with JFK shortly on their errors and then asked me to leave the cockpit. I will never forget that fiasco...made me glad pax service never was my primary job :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:58 am 
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EatSleepJeep - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:00 pm
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Location: KDSM
According to emerging details, it's all Continental; not TSA. Delta flight deplaned after 2 hours, bused to MSP and you're not hearing about them because they were taken care of.
http://www.startribune.com/local/528905 ... page=1&c=y


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:21 am 
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MeekRN - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:00 am
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i dont think you can ever blame the pilot. if he says he is not fit for duty, lack of sleep or upset stomach, food poisoning, or a million other reasons.

if the pilot was forced to make the flight and there was an incident and the pilot stated he wasnt able and was forced to fly a route.... that would be expensive for that airline and the industry in general.

An inconvience on the passengers or airlines side does not constitute an emergency on the pilots side.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:29 am 
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Pat206 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:00 am
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EatSleepJeep wrote:
According to emerging details, it's all Continental; not TSA. Delta flight deplaned after 2 hours, bused to MSP and you're not hearing about them because they were taken care of.
It's not all CO although they are taking the flak. It's ExpressJet crew and dispatch who ****ed up. A codeshare is just that, the mainline plays no part in the daily operations of the feeder.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:26 am 
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mfling - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:00 am
Posts: 15
"I don't think you can ever blame the pilot". MeekRN, you're obviously not a pilot. The pilot is soley responsible for the flight, even when it's parked and boarded on the ground.

Something doesn't make sense here. How can passengers stay onboard an aircraft without an aircrew? I've never been onboard a commercial flight without one present. Ever. And no, gate agents don't count.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:42 pm 
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azav8r - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:00 pm
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MeekRN...as usual you have no damn clue what you're talking about.

The intelligence of this forum continues to decline.... :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:56 pm 
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JHEM - FlightAware user avatar

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wazzu90 wrote:
After 2 hours I'm getting off. Go ahead and try to stop me! :twisted:

You can follow me, I'll run interference.

Seriously, after several hours of getting smoke blown up my nether regions by the flight staff I'd be tempted to pull the chest pains routine and have them call the airport's ambulance and EMT. In any event I'd be off that aircraft, even if it meant being taken into custody.

Either that or I'd whip out my VA ID card that states "This individual suffers from combat induced PTSD and is heavily medicated for YOUR protection. Handle with extreme care." :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:00 pm 
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lieberma - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
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Location: Heading to NORDO territory
azav8r wrote:
MeekRN...as usual you have no damn clue what you're talking about.

The intelligence of this forum continues to decline.... :roll:


While I know what you mead Az, broadbrushing the forum not fair.

Unless you include me and the many others in that crowd? :wink:

BTW, your reaction was a lot nicer then my WTF reaction so I stepped away from the keyboard. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:03 pm 
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lieberma - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
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Location: Heading to NORDO territory
JHEM wrote:
regions by the flight staff I'd be tempted to pull the chest pains routine and have them call the airport's ambulance and EMT. In any event I'd be off that aircraft, even if it meant being taken into custody.


I can imagine your newly found "relatives" (AKA remaining passengers) and a mass exodus out that open galley door to accompany you to the hospital for their escape route. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:06 pm 
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IADFXMD11HVY - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:00 am
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Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
azav8r wrote:
MeekRN...as usual you have no damn clue what you're talking about.

The intelligence of this forum continues to decline.... :roll:


Second this. MeekRN, you are wrong. How can you back that point up? I have as I made in my statement an actual example of such an event. Bottom line anyone and everyone be they mainline, express, GA, are going to do their very best to take care of their pax, and a/c and in this instance the Capt. did not take charge and ask more questions of his company, and then demand more...this is not over. I like I said don't think termination, but discipline for all parties involved from local staff to dispatch / ops...who ever.

If I don't know about a particular item within the forum I keep my mouth closed, UNLESS it begins to turn comical and then I feel an urge to chime in 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:43 pm 
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phantomjet - FlightAware user avatar

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lieberma wrote:
azav8r wrote:
MeekRN...as usual you have no damn clue what you're talking about.

The intelligence of this forum continues to decline.... :roll:


While I know what you mead Az, broadbrushing the forum not fair.


:lol: I don't think that helped your cause too much Allen!
:lol: Oh Man, that was the best laugh I've had in awhile...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:47 pm 
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lieberma - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
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Location: Heading to NORDO territory
phantomjet wrote:
lieberma wrote:
azav8r wrote:
MeekRN...as usual you have no damn clue what you're talking about.

The intelligence of this forum continues to decline.... :roll:


While I know what you mead Az, broadbrushing the forum not fair.


:lol: I don't think that helped your cause too much Allen!
:lol: Oh Man, that was the best laugh I've had in awhile...


Yep, so right Phantomjet! Oh well, can't fight 'em, join em!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:01 pm 
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azav8r - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:00 pm
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lieberma wrote:
Unless you include me....


As the ol' saying goes..."the truth only hurts if it should". :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:02 pm 
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lieberma - FlightAware user avatar

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Location: Heading to NORDO territory
azav8r wrote:
lieberma wrote:
Unless you include me....


As the ol' saying goes..."the truth only hurts if it should". :P


"Ain't" that the truth!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:09 pm 
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scow2ed - FlightAware user avatar

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Well, CNN emailed me back that they would investigate further after I sent this list to them last night.....

I just watched their 15 minute story on HLN and with 2 expects and all the trails and tribulations from past flights such as the one mentioned above,...

They also interviewed 1 pax from this flight.

Contenital called everybody on the flight today to apologize and to make their offer(s).

The experts suggest this (and it should stand for all future flights that this happens to)...DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING FROM THE AIRLINES AFTER AN EVENT LIKE THIS. (The passengers will be receiving their Fed-Ex packages tomorrow.)

Contact a lawyer, and individually file a "false imprisonment" charge against the airline (and all the related companies). The same type of charge that would be filed in a shop lifting case after an over eager rent-a-cop tries to falsely hold you.

Don't worry about the cost, just call up one of the local TV advertising Lawyers in your area (We must 100 of them in central South Carolina) and offer them 10 or 20% of what ever they can get. If successful, both of you will be ahead cash wise.

And if the suits do not result in an acceptable outcome, at least the fact the suits were filed will wake up Congress to get moving again working for the people, as opposed to a large industry that has got them convinced that "without them" the country will be hurt.

Thank you all for your comments.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:36 pm 
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scow2ed wrote:
Well, CNN emailed me back that they would investigate further after I sent this list to them last night.....

Spoken like a true bottom-feeding, slime-sucking lawyer.

What happened with Continental is wrong. Last time I checked the airline was ran by humans. Their flights and the flights of their code shares are operated by humans. Even most of the passengers are human. Humans make mistakes.

Continental is doing good by apologizing and offering compensation.

It is because of slime-suckers and bottom-feeders that are happy to sue at the drop of a hat that doctors (especially ob-gyn) are leaving their practices, and there's 40 miles worth of lawyerese on everything from sleeping pills to beach balls to whatever.

I admit I would be ticked if I was on this flight. If Continental did the right thing by trying to make amends (like they are trying to do) then I would not sue for even one penny. If any lawyer came up to me I would tell him to get the hell out of my country. You do realize that when it comes to suing it is the lawyers that get a good chunk of the award and not the person suing.


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