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rlsmith17
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 2
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IADFXMD11HVY
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Joined: 21 May 2008
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Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4191
Location: N14 KVAY
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 Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Three hours overdue as I type this (14:15 Paris), doesn't bode well. |
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IADFXMD11HVY
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1267
Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I am surprised no debris field has been found...one has to guess this will be the outcome. |
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IADFXMD11HVY
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Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1267
Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
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redlegsfan21
FlightAware Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 281
Location: KDAY
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's hope for a speedy recovery of the a/c and hopefully those who possibly lost their lives in this horrible tragedy. I don't see any good news coming but let's hope for some survivors in the water. Thoughts and prayers with everyone on this flight and with Air France. |
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lsinlv
Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: LAS
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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 terrible news.
Can anyone here explain how an ac can "drop off" radar as in this case. I know it has a specific flight plan, and I would think some international traffic control would have it to route/oversee; yet the news links state that they are not sure where they lost the ac. |
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charlie12
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| lsinlv wrote: | terrible news.
Can anyone here explain how an ac can "drop off" radar as in this case. I know it has a specific flight plan, and I would think some international traffic control would have it to route/oversee; yet the news links state that they are not sure where they lost the ac. |
I'm pretty much a dummy about this but are the planes tracked with GPS so they would have a location where it went down? |
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nano404
FlightAware Member
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 440
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| What the.... |
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magnetoz
Charter Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 481
Location: I69
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Planes have GPS for navigation but they are not tracked with it, they are tracked with radar and there's no radar coverage over the middle of the ocean. |
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lieberma
Charter Member
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3972
Location: KMBO - Sundowner N1943L
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| magnetoz wrote: | | Planes have GPS for navigation but they are not tracked with it, they are tracked with radar and there's no radar coverage over the middle of the ocean. |
Which I will never understand, why don't they equip them with an "onstar" type of tracker? Heck, they even have it where if the airbag deploys, the device will "phone home" as an emergency.
Rhetorical question, I know, since it's aviation..... |
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Aaron123
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 10
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magnetoz
Charter Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 481
Location: I69
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| lieberma wrote: | why don't they equip them with an "onstar" type of tracker? Heck, they even have it where if the airbag deploys, the device will "phone home" as an emergency.
Rhetorical question, I know, since it's aviation..... |
Onstar uses celluar phone technology to contact emergency services. But i think ADS-B is supposed to accomplish that for aviation in the near future. |
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lieberma
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Location: KMBO - Sundowner N1943L
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billpa
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Cross-ocean flights report their position by HF (Shortwave) to a variety of stations, depending over which part of the Atlantic they're flying. I've yet to see if the Air France Airbus had contacted any of those trans-Atlantic HF stations. They did say the electrical problems reported were sent in automatically, I assume via HF? |
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weatherspmd
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 8
Location: KBWI ILS Approach 33R ORIOL
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: IR Picture of region |
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NOAA GOES EAST Satilight IR: 2:45 UTC
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FlyNYC
FlightAware Member
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 1048
Location: Left field
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| billpa wrote: | | Cross-ocean flights report their position by HF (Shortwave) to a variety of stations, depending over which part of the Atlantic they're flying. I've yet to see if the Air France Airbus had contacted any of those trans-Atlantic HF stations. They did say the electrical problems reported were sent in automatically, I assume via HF? |
Many newer and more advanced aircraft have satellite link technology which allow messages to be sent to and from the aircraft. In this case, the aircraft will automatically send a message to maintenance control if there is a failure of some type or a limitation (ie. engine temperature or power setting) is exceeded. In the case of some newer aircraft, the satellite links have replaced the HF radio for position reporting and similar communications. |
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lieberma
Charter Member
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3972
Location: KMBO - Sundowner N1943L
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| FlyNYC wrote: |
Many newer and more advanced aircraft have satellite link technology which allow messages to be sent to and from the aircraft. In this case, the aircraft will automatically send a message to maintenance control if there is a failure of some type or a limitation (ie. engine temperature or power setting) is exceeded. In the case of some newer aircraft, the satellite links have replaced the HF radio for position reporting and similar communications. |
Would the power that runs that satellite link technology be based on primary power sources or was there some foresight to place those kind of messages to run off a alternate power source like the ELT battery. Could lightning fry an entire electrical system?
Can't imagine it would require that much juice to fire off a message on a back up source when things hit the fan????? |
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statto
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Purely speculating here - could lightning have caused an electrical short circuit, which for whatever reason have caused a catastrophic explosion? For instance, didn't a short circuit in the fuel tank bring down TWA 800? I mean, some things just don't add up here... |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4191
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Fly by wire aircraft + "Catastrophic" electrical malfunction/failure = A very poor prospect.
A great deal of speculation in the press as to the possibility of a lightning strike having affected the aircraft's systems. We're going to see every crackpot scenario imaginable dragged out, dusted off and presented by the press in an effort to "make" news. |
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jmhayes
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Which aircraft? |
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| I've seen reports that the aircraft involved was F-GZCP but that aircraft flew AFR 191 to Bangalore on 5/31? |
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IADFXMD11HVY
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1267
Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: IR Picture of region |
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| weatherspmd wrote: | NOAA GOES EAST Satilight IR: 2:45 UTC
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Thank you for this. |
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wazzu90
FlightAware Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 3783
Location: YKM - Yakima, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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From Breitbart: | Quote: | | France has asked the US military to use its network of spy satellites and listening stations to help find an Air France jet that disappeared over the Atlantic, defence ministry officials said Monday. |
They always want our help when they need it. Seems like it's been ~230 years since they last helped us.
The A330-200 is what they're using as the KC-45 to steal American jobs. Is this the right plane for the job for the US Airforce's next tanker? |
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yr2012
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| statto wrote: | | Purely speculating here - could lightning have caused an electrical short circuit, which for whatever reason have caused a catastrophic explosion? For instance, didn't a short circuit in the fuel tank bring down TWA 800? I mean, some things just don't add up here... |
It would need to be one heckava bolt to knock out the entire aircraft! The 330 is build with several redundant systems to prevent this from occuring. However a direct strike to the cockpit would probably set things in motion.
Remember they didn't launch a search until the next checkpoint was missed over the Cape Verde Islands, several hours past Brasil's last checkpoint. Both the ELT and boxes should be pinging and we haven't heard any chatter from pilots over the route. If our satellites can find junk autos in Iowa cornfields from 800 miles in space, they can certainly find an ELT. |
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IADFXMD11HVY
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 1267
Location: KIAD relocating KTPA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| statto wrote: | | Purely speculating here - could lightning have caused an electrical short circuit, which for whatever reason have caused a catastrophic explosion? For instance, didn't a short circuit in the fuel tank bring down TWA 800? I mean, some things just don't add up here... |
This is just me throwing something out there, but when I think of "Electrical" issues / failure I think SR 111:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_111
In my conspiricy theory mind TW800 = terrorist bomb |
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