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goofy173
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| rpmiracle wrote: | | goofy173 wrote: | That's not his Facebook page. It's someone's fan page of him.
When it gets into the courts, which in NY, you know it will, the company will blame the pilots. I mean, they're union. A union person can never do right by any company. |
Furthermore, it makes no sense to blame your pilots during litigation. |
Than you might want to check aviation litigation over the last 40 years. |
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goofy173
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| rpmiracle wrote: | | goofy173 wrote: | That's not his Facebook page. It's someone's fan page of him.
When it gets into the courts, which in NY, you know it will, the company will blame the pilots. I mean, they're union. A union person can never do right by any company. |
| Quote: | | Captain Sully's Fan Facebook Page |
is what I read in his post. |
Did he change that? I could swear 'fan' wasn't in the post originally? |
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Number2468
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: Power out? |
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Can anyone help me with performance and systems information on A320?
Rate of descent from 3200 ft to splash was <1000 feet per minute. (See Flight Track on page 1 of this thread) Also airspeed seems to have been low enough that they had power for all the flaps/slats/etc. If both engines were shut down they would have been on some sort of APU.
Does an APU on an A320 power all those systems? What rate of descent would you expect with the AC loaded and no power?
Does the rate of descent indicate that they were getting at least some power from damaged engine(s)?
I would like to hear the cockpit tape as the crew worked the problems. Heck of a job. |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Power out? |
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| Number2468 wrote: | | If both engines were shut down they would have been on some sort of APU. |
AFAIK both engines were out and it was a case of a Gimli Glider. Ironically, the Capt. in this case has a commercial glider license and is a glider CFI!
Sources of power for the aircraft's systems would have been the APU, backup batteries and a RAT (Ram Air Turbine).
Here's some thoughts from a friend with time in the aircraft: "If both engine-driven generators drop offline when the speed is above 100 KIAS a Ram Air Turbine(RAT) deploys which powers a pump for the Blue hydraulic system. The pump in turn powers a 5 KVA generator for emergency electrical power backed up by the 2 batteries.
The pilot must maintain a minimum of 140 KIAS to keep the RAT working while he places the Flap handle to the Flaps 3 position. The 2 position slats will come down slowly to the full down position but the flaps will remain fully retracted.
In case of complete electrical failure of all the AC generators(including the RAT) and the batteries, pitch control is through mechanical trimming via the horizontal stabilizer trim wheel while rudder control is through direct mechanical linkage via the rudder pedals. Roll control is unavailable except what can be obtained via differential thrust and the rudder." |
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pika1000
Charter Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2218
Location: KTUL/KRVS via BFL/MIT
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well, they are trying to explain things so "common folk" can understand it. Now, if they would just explain why flying into thunderstorms and ice on the wings are both BAD, flying with "stupid people" might not be as bad...
*Stupid Debug thing.....*
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480109,00.html
Also, a nice story on the pilot....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480108,00.html |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!  |
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pika1000
Charter Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2218
Location: KTUL/KRVS via BFL/MIT
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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And now, here come the hippies.....
Just got off the phone with my sister, who is a vet in CA, and apparently, an ultra liberal, animal rights group is planning a protest at LGA because it is messing with the local waterfowls environment and crap. They are NOT claiming the pilot is a hero and are saying that he should have done more to avoid the birds, and if they were found to be Canadian Geese, he should be fined for killing and protected species.
I swear, I hate hippies.....and I feel sorry for my sister in the fact that she has to deal with them on a daily basis. |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| pika1000 wrote: | And now, here come the hippies.....
Just got off the phone with my sister, who is a vet in CA, and apparently, an ultra liberal, animal rights group is planning a protest at LGA because it is messing with the local waterfowls environment and crap. They are NOT claiming the pilot is a hero and are saying that he should have done more to avoid the birds, and if they were found to be Canadian Geese, he should be fined for killing and protected species. |
The Canada Goose is no longer a protected species, their numbers are legion and they've been off the endangered list since the 50's. However, as a prime waterfowl for hunters, they are a regulated species and you normally need a license to harvest them and are limited in the number you can take.
Their very name is a misnomer nowadays as most have never been to Canada in their lives and the static non-migratory populations here in the Mid-Atlantic states grow ever larger.
From Wikipedia:
"The species is frequently found on golf courses, parking lots and urban parks, which would have previously hosted only migratory geese on rare occasions. Owing to its adaptability to human-altered areas, it has become the most common waterfowl species in North America. In many areas, non-migratory Canada Geese are now regarded as pests. They are suspected of being a cause of an increase in high fecal coliforms at beaches. An extended hunting season and the use of noise makers have been used in an attempt to disrupt suspect flocks.
Since 1999, The United States Department of Agriculture Wildlife Services agency has been engaged in lethal culls of Canada Geese primarily in urban or densely populated areas. The agency responds to municipalities or private land owners, such as golf courses, who find the geese obtrusive or object to their waste."
The local Amish carpenters are doing a land-office business in making dog, coyote and fox shaped scare-goose silhouettes for all the neighborhood golf courses and lakes. |
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pika1000
Charter Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2218
Location: KTUL/KRVS via BFL/MIT
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| That is what I thought (concerning the Canadian Geese) but wasn't 100% sure. I just thought it was funny that one of my sister's clients went off on a tangent like that about this. |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| pika1000 wrote: | | That is what I thought (concerning the Canadian Geese) but wasn't 100% sure. I just thought it was funny that one of my sister's clients went off on a tangent like that about this. |
And it's times like this that make you glad you left CA! |
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EatSleepJeep
FlightAware Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 384
Location: KDSM
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| pika1000 wrote: | And now, here come the hippies.....
Just got off the phone with my sister, who is a vet in CA, and apparently, an ultra liberal, animal rights group is planning a protest at LGA because it is messing with the local waterfowls environment and crap. They are NOT claiming the pilot is a hero and are saying that he should have done more to avoid the birds, and if they were found to be Canadian Geese, he should be fined for killing and protected species.
I swear, I hate hippies.....and I feel sorry for my sister in the fact that she has to deal with them on a daily basis. |
Well, it's a good thing the right wing has an equally stupid radio talk show host to stand up for the pilots of this "A380 jumbo jet." |
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emb145
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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It appears that this flight took off from runway 4. Being not familiar with operations at LGA, is this the normal departure runway even with the winds from 320 degrees?
emb145 |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| EatSleepJeep wrote: | | Well, it's a good thing the right wing has an equally stupid radio talk show host to stand up for the pilots of this "A380 jumbo jet." |
You mean like on FOX yesterday when Cavuto was expounding over how warm water is softer than cold? (No, he wasn't referring to frozen water when he said cold!) |
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jawad101
FlightAware Staff
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 111
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| emb145 wrote: | It appears that this flight took off from runway 4. Being not familiar with operations at LGA, is this the normal departure runway even with the winds from 320 degrees?
emb145 |
Often enough if the winds are not too strong (for an airliner), they'll take off on a runway that is better suited for the flow of traffic, not necessarily for the winds. Sometimes this even means taking of with a 5 knot tailwind. |
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robbreid
FlightAware Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 2366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: AP/Trela Media/assorted photos . . . |
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damiross
New FlightAware Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: -3339
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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As much as the word is overused, the captain is a hero.
Now, for another overused word: miracle. The media are reporting this as a miracle, which I do not think it is. It was due to the skills of the pilots that this accident came out alright. To call it a miracle, at least in the secular sense, is to cheapen the skills of the pilots, especially the captain.
Your thoughts? |
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707pylot
Charter Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: AP/Trela Media/assorted photos . . . |
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Excellent photos. Too bad you don't have any more that show the "touchdown." |
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kenchar
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if pilots train specifically for ditching or if ditching is taught as part of systems training. The aircraft is equipped with a puch button for Ditching which closes all openings below the theoretical flotation line.
Since there is a button would there be a checklist for ditching? |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| kenchar wrote: | I wonder if pilots train specifically for ditching or if ditching is taught as part of systems training. The aircraft is equipped with a puch button for Ditching which closes all openings below the theoretical flotation line.
Since there is a button would there be a checklist for ditching? |
It depends on the specific aircraft and whether the manufacturer has developed a ditching regimen.
There's no "requirement" for teaching or practicing how to ditch an aircraft. |
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JHEM
FlightAware Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 4372
Location: N14 KVAY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| damiross wrote: | | Your thoughts? |
Agreed. |
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dorishd0
FlightAware Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 169
Location: West Palm Beach
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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[quote]I wonder if pilots train specifically for ditching or if ditching is taught as part of systems training. The aircraft is equipped with a puch button for Ditching which closes all openings below the theoretical flotation line.
Since there is a button would there be a checklist for ditching?[quote]
Below is copied from another forum, but it is what you are looking for.
Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
what are the procedures for that?do you do a flaps up landing, to prevent "digging in"? and what speed would you land that at? Excellent job by the pilot and crew. Getting that plane out is going to be interesting.
Ditching or forced landing imminent:
Approach speed: Vref
Descent rate (if thrust available): 200-300 fpm
Landing gear: retracted
Flaps: 45
checklist follows:
1) L PACK and R PACK - OFF
2) EMER DEPRESS - ON
just before impact:
3) EMER DEPRESS - OFF
4) Thrust levers - SHUT OFF
5) APU, LH ENG, and RH ENG FIRE PUSH - SELECT
6) Water/terrain - Contact with minimum forward speed, above stall speed, minimum sink rate, wings level
When airplane is stopped:
7) APU BOTTLE - SELECT
Both engine BOTTLES - SELECT
9) Doors and overwing exits - Open
10) Passenger evacuation procedure - Accomplish
The planned ditching checklist is a lot different, with preparations for crash, emergency equipment, etc. This checklist is the "Oh no, we're going down right now!" checklist |
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TimCoble
FlightAware Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 234
Location: Ames, Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: Hero? |
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"Your thoughts?"
Agreed. |
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rjbob
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| pika1000 wrote: | And now, here come the hippies.....
Just got off the phone with my sister, who is a vet in CA, and apparently, an ultra liberal, animal rights group is planning a protest at LGA because it is messing with the local waterfowls environment and crap. They are NOT claiming the pilot is a hero and are saying that he should have done more to avoid the birds, and if they were found to be Canadian Geese, he should be fined for killing and protected species.
I swear, I hate hippies.....and I feel sorry for my sister in the fact that she has to deal with them on a daily basis. |
Please...I'm a Liberal, an environmentalist, and a former hippie. And I hate STUPID hippies. I also have just as much of a dislike for STUPID conservative rednecks.
Please don't paint everyone who has a different philosophy than you with the the same broad brush of disdain.
I am a 12,000+ hour professional pilot and I'd like to think I have a grasp of how things work.
As to those particular hippies who think that the pilot should have done more to avoid the flock of geese? I hate them, too. |
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pika1000
Charter Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 2218
Location: KTUL/KRVS via BFL/MIT
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| rjbob wrote: | | pika1000 wrote: | And now, here come the hippies.....
Just got off the phone with my sister, who is a vet in CA, and apparently, an ultra liberal, animal rights group is planning a protest at LGA because it is messing with the local waterfowls environment and crap. They are NOT claiming the pilot is a hero and are saying that he should have done more to avoid the birds, and if they were found to be Canadian Geese, he should be fined for killing and protected species.
I swear, I hate hippies.....and I feel sorry for my sister in the fact that she has to deal with them on a daily basis. |
Please...I'm a Liberal, an environmentalist, and a former hippie. And I hate STUPID hippies. I also have just as much of a dislike for STUPID conservative rednecks.
Please don't paint everyone who has a different philosophy than you with the the same broad brush of disdain.
I am a 12,000+ hour professional pilot and I'd like to think I have a grasp of how things work.
As to those particular hippies who think that the pilot should have done more to avoid the flock of geese? I hate them, too. |
Hence...ULTRA liberal. |
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damiross
New FlightAware Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: -3339
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Aren't birds being ingested by planes just part of Darwin's evolution theory? After all, the theory states survival of the fittest. It seems like if the birds are dumb enough to get sucked into a jet engine then they are too dumb to survive.
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