Live Flight Tracking

Lapetomane made a comment about someone but didn't quote the person so I have no positive idea who is he is saying is being a schmuck. Me? The person who posted right above his schmuck comment (mboette)? I don't think it's me because I don't have "charter member" under my name.

Flying SWA is like taking the short bus, lol.

Then a few million people taking the short bus while those offering limo service are starting to tank or be bought out (NWA, COA/UAL, AAL)...

The short bus must be doing something right, because those limo services are crashing and burning (pun intended).

BL.

David is no longer a Charter Member, although your characterization is often still accurate.

Sorta' like an immense encyclopedia, filled with the most arcane and interesting aviation trivia, that suddenly slams shut on your fingers just as you get to the most interesting bits!

Yeah, WalMart works the same way, and now everyone hates them, lol.
Get what you pay for.

And yet for the service they offer, people keep coming back for more, while those who were more luxurious (to use your analogy, KMart), fell hard to the point of being bought out, their hubs shut down, etc. Cases in point: USA leaving KPIT, and SWA moving in. AWE and COA leaving KCMH, and SWA and TRS moving in. NWA getting bought out, and SWA moving into KMSP. FFT declaring bankruptcy, and being bought by RPA, while SWA moved back into KDEN.


In short, they have to be giving some measure of great service for people to keep coming back to them, and for them to record profits through the most difficult times of aviation history, while the other airlines either declared bankruptcy, were bailed out by the government, or shut down completely.

In fact, the only airline that is beating them at this point is DAL, and that is in the aspect of buying their own oil refinery to cut down the cost of purchasing fuel and paying the markup for that. To be honest, that is also part of the Walmart Effect. You should probably read Sam Walton's book; you'll learn some really good ideas behind the business practices that Walmart uses, outside of what you see as a consumer.

BL.

Southwest didn't build a hub at PIT or CMH - they were just crappy places to put a hub. Delta and US Airways each serve 7 destinations from PIT, Southwest serves 10 year round and 2 more seasonally, United serves 8 year-round. I really don't think you can saw that Southwest really moved in in any significant way.

From CMH, Delta serves 8 destinations year round and 3 more seasonally, Southwest serves 11 year round and 1 seasonally, United serves 5 and US serves 4.

In neither situation can you say that Southwest built a hub or any sort of dominant position at the airport, they have only marginally become the largest carrier there, mostly by carrying a lot of leisure passengers to large leisure destinations.

Southwest still has a very small presence at MSP and I'm not convinced the station is profitable. It's likely that they went there only because it was the largest market they didn't serve (the other large markets they didn't serve, ATL, MEM, and CLT, they picked up by buying Airtran). Their entrance into MSP had nothing to do with NWA getting bought out and NWA was actually doing quite well at the time they were purchased (that's why they were an attractive asset to acquire). The biggest factor was probably that Airtran, who had been suppressing yields on CHI-MSP for several years with their own MDW-MSP service had recently dropped the route (as they had to rely almost entirely on local traffic as they didn't have a hub in either city), leaving a significant gap in what is one of the largest markets from one of Southwest's largest hub cities and a relatively short flight to boot.

Southwest was the first airline I have flown. I fly frequently from JAN to HOU and that :50 flight is very worth it. Very low prices, great customer service. I get airline miles thru southwest via wyndham rewards. I have gotten several free flights, only paying the taxes $2.50 each way. You can't beat it. I can also say that if they mess up or you are not happy with their service, you will be compensated. LUV Southwest.

The only DISLIKE i have is the B 737-300. This plane is very bumpy and uncomfortable to me. -700 is a much NICER ride!!!!

Bold for emphasis.

I ended up with 16 credits about 10 years ago and qualified for their free roundtrip flight. So I took it on a puddle hop from LAS-LAX and return. While in the penalty box because LAX was under flow control/metering, our delay was so much that they compensated everyone onboard with a free flight.

I haven't seen one legacy airline compensate anyone who was already on a free flight with another free flight.



I can't remember what their schedule is, but some of the 733s are getting phased out, especially with the 738s coming in plus the influx from TRS.

BL.

WN is where the rest of the legacy carriers are heading or have headed. Bus with wings. As to compensation, that's laughable. Ya'all read about their little fare sale debacle a week or so ago? I'm still $17,000 in the hole to Southwest. Yes, friends... $17,000 dollars due to a computer problem. The compensation??? I do get my money back at some point... and a $350 voucher to fly WN for my trouble...

I don't think any legacy carriers are headed towards single class service, open seating, a single aircraft type, or no codeshares - the last two of which are really what is holding WN back (along with high labor costs).

Yea, code shares have really helped the legacy airlines. I see them bringing in billions of dollars in revenue from code shares. So much money is coming in they are all making a profit. Wait! It's Southwest that is making a profit (no code sharing), not the legacy carriers!

+1

And right you are. I didn't see the bit about the "charter member". Just me being a schmuck....

Codeshares contribute hundreds of millions of dollars in incremental revenue to the airlines that operate them. Do you really think that UA/LH could fly 4x ORD-FRA without a codeshare? Do you think that DL could fly SEA-AMS without a codeshare? On international flights from U.S. carriers around half the passengers are usually codeshare connections.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, Southwest isn't doing so hot anymore. Every legacy carrier except American has consistently turned a profit in the past few years. It's not 2003 anymore.

Codeshares in my opinion are basically a cartel. You get two airlines flying one route and both airlines share profit on the route. It's anti-consumer.

But my question is: do the codeshares bring in enough revenue to make the airline profitable? Or is the reason why the airlines are making money due to the excessive unbundling of fees (e.g. baggage, talking to a live person to make a reservation, etc.)?

While the airlines may have made a profit in the past few years, how many have consistently made an annual profit over many years? None of the legacy carriers have.

What you describe is not a codeshare, it's a joint venture. They're different. Codeshare partners without a joint venture cannot communicate regarding routes, schedules, or pricing and must split revenue according to existing tariff rules.

No single factor can make an airline profitable or unprofitable.

The legacy carrier's recent better financial performance is mainly due to capacity reductions among all carriers, including LCC's, due to the higher fuel prices - especially the reduction of a lot of marginal flying (flights that were done because there was aircraft time available that only barely covered or didn't cover the cost of fuel and crew). Another big factor is being able to operate with post-bankruptcy reforms and having a few years to get their feet under them operationally. Note that the past few years have had the best on-time performance across the industry in recent history. Unbundling has a little to do with it. Also, no airline charges you to just talk to reservations, only to make a reservation that you can make more easily online. If you need to talk to reservations because you have a problem or need to do something that can't be done online that has always been and always will be free.

Giving away free tickets would be very pro-consumer but very bad for business.

It's never right for a company to charge you to make a reservation. Though it is widespread, it still has not reached the point where everyone has Internet access. Until that happens, there should be no reason for an airline or other company to charge for the "privilege" to spend money at that company.

Nearly everyone has access to a public library and nearly everyone who can afford to fly has internet access.

But it's still not 100%. I, for one, will not use a public computer for any thing involving a credit card or private data. There are also cases where people may have Internet access but that access is at point B and the person is at point A.

My entire point is that no business, be it an airline, the corner store, or a big box store, should charge the customer a fee just for buying something from them. This is also why I will not use livenation or any other ticketing organization that charges me a "convenience fee."

9 times out of 10 it is a trickle down fee that the bank charges the business, and then the business charges to the consumer.