iframe header
  • Join FlightAware (Why Join?)
  • Login
  • US Flag 
05:51AM EDT

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:25 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
When, IF EVER, and in what airspace, is a low pass legal?
The FARs state aerobatics may not be performed in A, B, C, D, or E airspace, or below 1500 AGL.
If I was out in the middle of the desert 100 miles away from anybody or any property, would it be legal then? (Nevermind that nobody would see me out there...this is about law, not about people seeing it).

What about just merely flying below the 500 foot mark?

Do not infer from this post that I intend to do the above mentioned things... I was just reading the FARs and this question came up. I've seen many many videos on YouTube of low passes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:25 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member
rwb2112 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 773
Location: KSAT
http://www.roadmaster.com/truck_school_SaltLake.asp :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:53 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Please see below post...


Last edited by Quake120 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:07 am 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Quake120 wrote:
I know right where that truck driving school is. It is a few miles south of the south end of the runways at KSLC.

I assume you are trying to tell me to not fly because you assume I am asking this question because I am going to do low passes. If that is the case please do me a big favor and RE READ this part:

Quake120 wrote:
Do not infer from this post that I intend to do the above mentioned things... I was just reading the FARs and this question came up. I've seen many many videos on YouTube of low passes.


...Thank you.


...There is a line in Top Gun about a truck driving school. Is that what you were referring to? ...If so, I totally missed that until it just dawned on me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:44 am 
Offline
FlightAware Member
rwb2112 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 773
Location: KSAT
Quake120 wrote:
...There is a line in Top Gun about a truck driving school. Is that what you were referring to?


Yes. sorry if I offended you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:08 am 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
rwb2112 wrote:
Quake120 wrote:
...There is a line in Top Gun about a truck driving school. Is that what you were referring to?


Yes. sorry if I offended you.


No worries...Entirely my fault for not recognizing the reference quickly :oops:
I overreacted a bit too...I took the time to write that I didn't intend to do low passes and I thought you were telling me to stop flying lol...

In any case, does anybody have answers to those questions?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:20 am 
Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
Posts: 5274
Location: Heading to NORDO territory
Quake120 wrote:
In any case, does anybody have answers to those questions?


FARS REGULATIONS

Check out item C.

Perfectly legal to fly below 500 feet in what you describe.

Just don't get within 500 foot of a person, building, vessel or vehicle. In otherwords don't buzz within inches a person videoing your antics :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:52 am 
Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
Posts: 5274
Location: Heading to NORDO territory
Interesting how this topic came up and how I just got this in an email today from a subscription to Mastery Flight Training Inc with regards to low passes.

Not all low passes may be legal over a runway environment

See http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/Aviation/4020.pdf where a Lear did a low pass and got busted for literally not having his gear down.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:30 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

...So if you are over a very very flat area (salt flats? dry lake bed?) you could fly 1 foot above the surface! ...Engine fails? Just hit the flaps and set it down.

So I guess what this says is that if you do a low pass when nobody is around to see it is basically okay by the FAA because no person or property is around to be endangered...Like you said, just don't have your friend standing there to film it :)

It seems strange that low passes over a runway would be frowned upon...Maybe you are landing at a remote airport and want to make sure the runway surface is suitable to land, or are just making sure there are no animals or obstructions on the runway.
Couldn't you just claim it was a go-around?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:59 pm 
Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
Posts: 5274
Location: Heading to NORDO territory
Quake120 wrote:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

...So if you are over a very very flat area (salt flats? dry lake bed?) you could fly 1 foot above the surface! ...Engine fails? Just hit the flaps and set it down.

So I guess what this says is that if you do a low pass when nobody is around to see it is basically okay by the FAA because no person or property is around to be endangered...Like you said, just don't have your friend standing there to film it :)


I believe (A) is a catchall to make it legal fly **anywhere* outside sparsely populated (AKA in town, over cities) lower than 500 feet AGL to land on a street should an engine fail. That's how I interpret it anyway.

(C) is the one that allows you to fly lower than 500 in sparsely populated areas (or water surfaces) with the caveat steer clear of things mentioned in reference.

Quake120 wrote:
It seems strange that low passes over a runway would be frowned upon...Maybe you are landing at a remote airport and want to make sure the runway surface is suitable to land, or are just making sure there are no animals or obstructions on the runway.
Couldn't you just claim it was a go-around?


In my eyes, be kinda hard to say your intent is a go-around (aborted landing) you are doing 200 to 300 knots over the runway AND if the gear were in the up and locked position one foot above the ground.

Intent to land just doesn't appear to be there. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:07 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
"I sure was intending to land...Yes, I am aware I was going 300 knots. No, the landing speed of my plane is 110 knots...I forgot the landing gear. Good thing I didn't land!"

...You are completely right. There is no way you are going to defend it as a go-around if you are going 3x your final approach speed :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:14 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member
flyboy97222 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:00 pm
Posts: 2659
Location: Sunny South Florida
Real simple- If you're at a towered airport ASK THE TOWER for a high speed pass over the runway.
I've done it and it was approved


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:13 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member
NeedleNose - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:00 pm
Posts: 3279
Location: KOKV
flyboy97222 wrote:
Real simple- If you're at a towered airport ASK THE TOWER for a high speed pass over the runway.

Negative Ghost Rider... The pattern is full.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSRngcYVoM0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:19 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
"Real simple- If you're at a towered airport ASK THE TOWER for a high speed pass over the runway.
I've done it and it was approved
"

This should work. I request a long landing sometimes so I can land at the end of the runway rather at the start of the runway because I have to taxi to the other end anyways (FBO is at the south end and if the wind is favoring 17, I'll end up landing on the North end. 1.5 miles at taxi speed.). I'm flying a 172 and I don't need a 10,000 foot runway! I've never been denied a long landing, and a long landing is sort of a low pass since I'm just floating in ground effect above the runway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 22
Location: KADS
Flying a rental airplane might be construed as endangering the property of others in the wreckless and dangerous category. If They don't see you, it didn't happen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:41 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member
will744 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:00 am
Posts: 3116
Location: Lone Star Executive Airport-CXO
If you're cleared for the option a fly-by is one of the options, I think?
Probably a good thing to let tower know anyway. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:15 pm 
Offline
YakDriver - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:00 am
Posts: 22
Location: KTUL
"Just because the tower controller approves a low approach does not make a high speed pass just above the runway legal." That is a direct quote from an OKC FSDO inspector.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:17 pm 
Offline
FlightAware Member
flyboy97222 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:00 pm
Posts: 2659
Location: Sunny South Florida
If you remain under 200kts you should have no problems.

Not all that is leagle is safe.
Not all that is safe is leagle.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:11 pm 
Offline
YakDriver - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:00 am
Posts: 22
Location: KTUL
That ASI took issue with a 100 kt. pass done by a Cessna 150 while over a runway with a low approach clearance...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Low Pass Question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:00 am
Posts: 10
I've done some low flying in my life. Got a ticket once in Utah. I flew low in a canyon in SE Utah. I dropped my plane into a perfectly straight canyon that was 100 feet wide and 100 feet deep. No people and though the park ranger originally (as I landed) claimed that I had broken the rules by flying below 500 feet, by the time I went to trial they had placed a ranger directly below me (I would have seen him!) and I got a thirty day suspension. I have also flown just above the waves as they break near the Mexican beach. I have flown at 5 feet AFL going up the Colorado River (AGL should be AWL-it is water, not ground) when I encountered a jet doing some ground hugging maneuver and he passed about 30 feet above me-no damage that couldn't be fixed by a good dry cleaner. I once buzzed a friends farm and pulled up to avoid a large tree at the end of the field. My friend snapped a picture from the ground and it was amazing how close I came to the tree. When you pull the nose up to 30 degrees, the plane does not follow the nose-there is forward momentum, etc, etc, and it would have been easier than I imagined to hit the tree. I have not flown low in the past 25 years, and I have concluded that it might be safe under certain circumstances, but is best not to practice low flying. I have an acquaintance whose sister was killed when a low flying plane hit an unmarked wire. It just isn't worth it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
iframe sidebar


 

Airport Tracker/Info


-or-