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 Post subject: Big problems for Air France at JFK
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Big problems for Air France. Flight 7 in minor runway accident, not able to depart. Looks like they may be moving all those pax onto flight 11 and 9 that have been cancelled.

AF007 Airbus A380-800
9:03 PM - April 11,2011
New York, John F Kennedy (JFK) NY - United States of America
terminal 1
10:23 AM - April 12,2011
Paris, Charles de Gaulle (CDG) - France
terminal 2E
no

AF011Boeing 777-200
cancelled
9:50 PM - April 11,2011
New York, John F Kennedy (JFK) NY - United States of America
terminal 1
11:05 AM - April 12,2011
Paris, Charles de Gaulle (CDG) - France
terminal 2E
no

AF009 Boeing 777-200
cancelled
11:20 PM - April 11,2011
New York, John F Kennedy (JFK) NY - United States of America
terminal 1
12:30 PM - April 12,2011
Paris, Charles de Gaulle (CDG) - France
terminal 2E :cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:12 pm 
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AFR7 wasn't a big problem, just a little CRJ7. ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:40 am 
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Quote:
(AGI) New York - An Air France Airbus A380 bumped into a Comair aircraft on the tarmac of New York's JFK airport. The accident occurred on Monday night: the French airplane carrying 475 passengers was approaching the take-off strip destined to Paris when its left wing bumped against the tail of the aircraft owned by Comair, a subsidiary airline company of Delta, which had just landed from Boston with 62 passengers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:19 am 
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Air France Airbus A-380's wing clipped the tail of another jet while taxiing. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Two-Planes-Collide-on-Ground-at-JFK-119666334.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:22 am 
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.... Crew are meant to be aware of where their wingtips are ...... But then again if you're taxiing cleared for takeoff with your nose gear on the center line of the taxiway you should expect there'd be clearance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:34 am 
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gretnabear wrote:
... But then again if you're taxiing cleared for takeoff with your nose gear on the center line of the taxiway you should expect there'd be clearance.

Unless you're driving an A380. The captain should've noted how close the plane was as he was approaching it.

Wow - got good video of the incident! Smacked that little CRJ pretty hard and spun it about 70 to 80 degrees! 62 pax and four crew members in need of a change of underwear! :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:08 am 
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gretnabear wrote:
... But then again if you're taxiing cleared for takeoff with your nose gear on the center line of the taxiway you should expect there'd be clearance.


Centerline does NOT assure you wingtip clearance

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publicat ... m0203.html

See 2-3-4 B.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:38 pm 
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In case the A380 captain's interested, the Paris number for Le Masteurs de Truck is 53 62 78 38 77 :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Wow that crj is gonna need some major inspecions done now on the tail to fuselage mounts. Wouldnt be surprised it if it is junked.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:19 pm 
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NeedleNose wrote:
In case the A380 captain's interested, the Paris number for Le Masteurs de Truck is 53 62 78 38 77 :wink:


Baaa Haaaa!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your can almost hear the captain saying "Oh S*#*!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:02 pm 
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discussion of possible causes with JFK Ground Control audio and a satellite view of the collision area which shows the relatively short distance between taxiway Alpha and the Comair ramp.

http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-04-12_airbus.asp


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:14 pm 
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From google earth (yeah, not the most accurate but ballpark) - it's about 180 feet from the centerline of A to the hash marks clear of the pad. That should be plenty of room for the 380 assuming the RJ was clear.

I think it's as simple as the RJ wasn't clear, nobody noticed, and it didn't matter in the other 99% of aircraft that taxied by.


PS - can someone verify the Comair flight number? The ATC tapes sound like 553 (JFK to STL), the reports of landing from Boston and timing seem to tie with 293. Just curious of the plane was coming or going. I guess coming from watching the ground crew approaching the plane before the collision.


Quote:
In case the A380 captain's interested, the Paris number for Le Masteurs de Truck is 53 62 78 38 77

:lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:04 am 
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http://phlairline.com/091706/N641CA.jpg

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COM2 ... /KBOS/KJFK


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:33 am 
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FlyNYC wrote:
Your can almost hear the captain saying "Oh S*#*!"

That would be "Ah Merde!". :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:38 am 
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It'd be interesting to hear the recording from the A380 CVR. I wonder if there was any mention of concern about getting past the CRJ. Judging by the speed it was moving in the video, I'd say probably not.

And simply reading the word "expletive" on a transcript somehow doesn't have the same effect as hearing the actual spoken words. :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:48 am 
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Is there another copy of the video somewhere ? The ABC one is "not available" up here.

There were a couple of similar 'doinks' a while back, both involving an A330 and a Dash-8. No guessing which came off worse.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:21 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2StZVDUck9M


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:02 pm 
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NeedleNose wrote:
It'd be interesting to hear the recording from the A380 CVR. I wonder if there was any mention of concern about getting past the CRJ. Judging by the speed it was moving in the video, I'd say probably not.

Judging by the video there's some good brakes on the 380! They certainly stopped tout de suite after the impact.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:21 pm 
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NeedleNose wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2StZVDUck9M
Thank you :shock: .

Is it me or was the A380 going a bit faster than normal taxi ? Ryanair pilot ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:57 pm 
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Pat206 wrote:
NeedleNose wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2StZVDUck9M
Thank you :shock: .

Is it me or was the A380 going a bit faster than normal taxi ? Ryanair pilot ?


More like a Southwest pilot- they taxi at V1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:31 pm 
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the reported operating empty weight of the Bombardier CRJ7 is 19,731 kg (43,500 lb). Considering how easy the 380 spun the CRJ7, what damage would have been done to that wing :?:
http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals/la-trb-a380-jfk-accident-20110412-001,1,1426621.photo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:03 pm 
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NTSB Pictures up.. http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2011/04/air-france-a380-comair-clip-photos/155668/1

A380
Image

CRJ-700
Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Traffic Congestion May Have Led to JFK Crash: Report

Quote:
By Paul DeBenedetto

Federal investigators suspect traffic congestion as a possible cause for Monday's collision between a jumbo jet and a commuter jet at Kennedy Airport.

According to the Wall Street Journal, congestion in the ramp area may have caused the smaller Comair jet to slow down before following the instructions of an air traffic controller. The Comair jet may have idled itself in a spot where the Air France A-380 didn't expect it to be, prompting the crash.

Citing people familiar with the matter, the paper said that the investigation will focus on how frequently incoming planes stop in the same spot the Comair plane did, and whether that leaves room enough for other, larger jets to pass.

The National Transportation Safety Board is expected to look at traffic-control tapes and flight-data recording information as it investigates the collision.

Video of the collision shows the wing of the much larger Air France jet clipping the back of the commuter jet, turning it an almost full 90 degrees. All of the Comair's passengers were evacuated safely, and no one was injured.

According to the Airbus website, A-380 planes are the largest commercial aircraft currently in operation, carrying up to 853 passengers on two decks. Because of this, taxi procedures of U.S. air-traffic controllers usually have strict rules to ensure other aircraft keep a safe distance.

Industry and government officials told the Journal that the accident would not cause any significant changes to current taxi procedures for other airports, but that Kennedy Airport has already begun reviewing their safety policies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:28 pm 
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NeedleNose wrote:
Traffic Congestion May Have Led to JFK Crash: Report

Quote:
By Paul DeBenedetto

Federal investigators suspect traffic congestion as a possible cause for Monday's collision between a jumbo jet and a commuter jet at Kennedy Airport.

According to the Wall Street Journal, congestion in the ramp area may have caused the smaller Comair jet to slow down before following the instructions of an air traffic controller. The Comair jet may have idled itself in a spot where the Air France A-380 didn't expect it to be, prompting the crash.

Citing people familiar with the matter, the paper said that the investigation will focus on how frequently incoming planes stop in the same spot the Comair plane did, and whether that leaves room enough for other, larger jets to pass.

The National Transportation Safety Board is expected to look at traffic-control tapes and flight-data recording information as it investigates the collision.

Video of the collision shows the wing of the much larger Air France jet clipping the back of the commuter jet, turning it an almost full 90 degrees. All of the Comair's passengers were evacuated safely, and no one was injured.

According to the Airbus website, A-380 planes are the largest commercial aircraft currently in operation, carrying up to 853 passengers on two decks. Because of this, taxi procedures of U.S. air-traffic controllers usually have strict rules to ensure other aircraft keep a safe distance.

Industry and government officials told the Journal that the accident would not cause any significant changes to current taxi procedures for other airports, but that Kennedy Airport has already begun reviewing their safety policies.

Makes sense.

From looking at the google earth image of the pad where the RJ was heading, it sure looks like an area that could get crowded. That and the video of the ground personnel moving towards the plane as it was hit leads me to believe it "stopped short" and was waiting to be marshaled in.

The above represents the opinion of one random person on the internet and should in no way be considered anything more than that. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:59 am 
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Preliminary NTSB reports:
Air France A380
ComAir CRJ


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