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 Post subject: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of A330
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:01 am 
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n540pa - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:35 am
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I cannot understand this CEO of Qantas Allan Joyce on why he did not order the B772 or B773 version aircraft instead of the Airbus A330 aircraft which I might add have had many maintenance issues and incredible high cost including refurbishment of the fleet. If Qantas would have taken advice from Boeing and ordered the B772 or B773'S like there neighbours did air new zealand. They would have being more economically better off in fuel savings and maintenance issues. Given the fact Qantas have had to restructure and cut costs and sack staff over 5000 employees I think they should have taken that advice and ordered the B777 aircraft using them in Australia and overseas. That way they would have retired the B744's earlier to save money. Allen Joyce has already admitted he made the wrong move to purchase the airbus A330's.

I would invite anyone for there views on this topic and let me know there opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:08 am 
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joelwiley - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:46 pm
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I have not details.....
Follow the money.....


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:25 am 
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vheab747sp21 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:01 am
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I can answer this question. The reason for A.J our CEO not ordering the b777's was he thinks he got a better deal with Airbus for the A330's now he has admitted this was a wrong choice of aircraft plagued with problems and the refurbishment cost millions to do. But you can not tell people who don't know more then other employees on the ground who have good idea's what is best for the airline Qantas


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:43 am 
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colin370 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:35 pm
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well for some one who worked for the airline I can say they were foolish not to order the A330'S but should have gone with the b772's even as a domestic jet what a saving and they could have retired the b763's that are falling to bits :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:18 am 
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eastern401tristar - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:01 am
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they cannot afford them now they made the wrong choice to go with airbus and now it's costing them dearly to run them and maintain there fleet :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:09 pm 
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BrettE - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:15 pm
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Whist I do believe the 777 is a excellent aircraft I don't believe the A330 is a bad choice it is a very successful aircraft, ordered by many of the world top airlines, and to this day it is taking orders away from 787 eg Hawaiian,Air pacific (Fiji airways).
The problem was the A380 and the 787 delays, once these aircraft are online and all the old inefficient 767 and 737 are retired the airline will be much more economical .also if they could replace Joyce the airline would be much better off .he has been one big disaster after another. just my opinion


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:53 am 
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rw812 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:00 am
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Location: damiross.net
BrettE wrote:
... the old inefficient 767 and 737...

The 737 is an extremely efficient aircraft. It is the world's best selling jetliner. Over 8,000 737's have been delivered since 1967. As of October 2014 there are over 4,000 on order. You, me, and everyone currently on this forum will be dead or approaching death before the last 737 flies.

What other aircraft was designed has a short-haul airliner with about 100 seats and now can accommodate over 200 passengers. Once relegated to flying routes of only a couple of thousands miles, the 737 is now able to fly over 5,000 miles. In fact, it is possible to fly around the world in a 737.

Boeing makes great aircraft. Every one of their jet liners has been a money maker for both Boeing and the airlines operating them.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:06 am 
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BrettE - FlightAware user avatar

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What I meant was the 737 400 that Qantas are disposing of. not the 737 800


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:46 am 
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Aeroplaneman747 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:27 am
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Location: YMML, Melbourne
n540pa wrote:
CEO of Qantas Allan Joyce on why he did not order the B772 or B773


Alan Joyce was not the CEO of Qantas when the 747s and A330s were ordered.

n540pa wrote:
many maintenance issues


There is no such evidence to support this idea of A330s having many maintenance issues. Airbus quotes the A330 dispatch reliability at over 99% and Boeing quotes the 777 dispatch reliability at 99.3%. These are both highly reliable and mature frames, reliability is not an issue with either of them.

n540pa wrote:
incredible high cost including refurbishment of the fleet.


The new business class would have been rolled out across either option, the aircraft type is not relevant in this case.

Additionally, take a look at how the 777 compares to types in the Qantas fleet:
A330-200 (max 406) vs 777-200 (max 440)
A330-300 (max 440) vs 777-200 (max 440)
747-400 (max 660) vs 777-300 (max 550)

The 772 is larger than the A330-200, many say that the current frequencies on MEL/SYD-PER using a mix of A332s and 738s are unsustainable, particularly with the resources boom in Western Australia beginning to end.

n540pa wrote:
retired the B744's earlier to save money.


Australian regulators have unusually strict ETOPS restrictions, making SCL and JNB nonviable with a twin. That leaves SYD-NRT, BNE-LAX, LAX-JFK and the soon to be 4x weekly MEL-LAX as the other 747 routes. This does not seem to justify a whole other aircraft type. Furthermore, the A330s Qantas have, have GE CF6s, so do the 744ERs and 767s, this commonality saves money.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:06 am 
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zknzfdc8 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:18 am
Posts: 7
Aeroplaneman747 wrote:
n540pa wrote:
CEO of Qantas Allan Joyce on why he did not order the B772 or B773


Alan Joyce was not the CEO of Qantas when the 747s and A330s were ordered.

n540pa wrote:
many maintenance issues


There is no such evidence to support this idea of A330s having many maintenance issues. Airbus quotes the A330 dispatch reliability at over 99% and Boeing quotes the 777 dispatch reliability at 99.3%. These are both highly reliable and mature frames, reliability is not an issue with either of them.

n540pa wrote:
incredible high cost including refurbishment of the fleet.


The new business class would have been rolled out across either option, the aircraft type is not relevant in this case.

Additionally, take a look at how the 777 compares to types in the Qantas fleet:
A330-200 (max 406) vs 777-200 (max 440)

A330-300 (max 440) vs 777-200 (max 440)
747-400 (max 660) vs 777-300 (max 550)

The 772 is larger than the A330-200, many say that the current frequencies on MEL/SYD-PER using a mix of A332s and 738s are unsustainable, particularly with the resources boom in Western Australia beginning to end.

n540pa wrote:
retired the B744's earlier to save money.


Australian regulators have unusually strict ETOPS restrictions, making SCL and JNB nonviable with a twin. That leaves SYD-NRT, BNE-LAX, LAX-JFK and the soon to be 4x weekly MEL-LAX as the other 747 routes. This does not seem to justify a whole other aircraft type. Furthermore, the A330s Qantas have, have GE CF6s, so do the 744ERs and 767s, this commonality saves money.


I quote its a good speech but rubbish you tell. Allan Joyce was there when they introduced the 747 438 aircraft and he put the orders in for the first A330's and there is evidence of that in there archives. Or ask Allan Joyce yourself no there is a guy that will give you all the full info on what he has ordered.

It comes down to the fact that he made the wrong choice of aircraft at the time and there are many maintenance issues with them. It has costed the company millions in refurbishment way above there budget forecast He also admitted he should have gone with the B762 originally with good advice from two other major airlines which by the way are in the top three carriers awards of 2014.

Allan Joyce has being a failure to the company and to the board of directors of Qantas and has enjoyed the high rolling life as a twit or idiot trying to run the company and causing huge job losses.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Aeroplaneman747 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:27 am
Posts: 37
Location: YMML, Melbourne
zknzfdc8 wrote:

I quote its a good speech but rubbish you tell. Allan Joyce was there when they introduced the 747 438 aircraft and he put the orders in for the first A330's and there is evidence of that in there archives. Or ask Allan Joyce yourself no there is a guy that will give you all the full info on what he has ordered.

It comes down to the fact that he made the wrong choice of aircraft at the time and there are many maintenance issues with them. It has costed the company millions in refurbishment way above there budget forecast He also admitted he should have gone with the B762 originally with good advice from two other major airlines which by the way are in the top three carriers awards of 2014.

Allan Joyce has being a failure to the company and to the board of directors of Qantas and has enjoyed the high rolling life as a twit or idiot trying to run the company and causing huge job losses.


Alan Joyce became CEO of Qantas in 2008 (as stated on their website). The 747s (including the ERs) were delivered between 1989 and 2003. You can check this on planespotters.net. Additionally, the A330-300s were delivered from 2003-2005. As for the A330-200s, I am not sure of the exact date, however a press release from 2006 shows that additional A330-200s were ordered then, implying the main batch were ordered prior to this extra order. http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airline ... /global/en

As for if these were the right choices, I am not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:52 pm 
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TheBoeing777Boy - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:38 pm
Posts: 1
Honestly I Agree this Allan Joyce guy did get Qantas out of financial difficulties but the Airbus A330 over Boeing Triple sevens seriously. Yes the A330 may be reliable but not as efficiently, effective or as safe as the B777 especially the Boeing 777-300ER model. Does anyone remember when the A330 Entered service (I don't think I was alive) Air France decided to show off their new shiny A330 aircrafts. The flight engineer (who was not present) printed the wrong map that did not show a Forrest the pilots continued to fly not knowing was lying ahead. The A330 wouldn't climb enough and the B777 has only had 1 crash BA38 (i think that was the number)

Peace TheBoeing777Boy


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:03 pm 
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subsy - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:47 am
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TheBoeing777Boy wrote:
Honestly I Agree this Allan Joyce guy did get Qantas out of financial difficulties but the Airbus A330 over Boeing Triple sevens seriously. Yes the A330 may be reliable but not as efficiently, effective or as safe as the B777 especially the Boeing 777-300ER model. Does anyone remember when the A330 Entered service (I don't think I was alive) Air France decided to show off their new shiny A330 aircrafts. The flight engineer (who was not present) printed the wrong map that did not show a Forrest the pilots continued to fly not knowing was lying ahead. The A330 wouldn't climb enough and the B777 has only had 1 crash BA38 (i think that was the number)

Peace TheBoeing777Boy



I am under the impression you are mixing with "absheim airshow" accident that involved a A320 crash landing in a forest after a too low / too slow demo pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:10 pm 
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pthomas745 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:00 pm
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LufthansaB744

Deltausa727B

Boeing777boy

Are all the same person, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:09 am 
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ralsch - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:06 am
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How I love such unfounded statements... Smells like a Boeing extremist to me. Every plane has its advantages and disadvantages, but the 330 is the most successful widebody plane in the medium to long haul sector :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:44 pm 
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Moviela - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:00 pm
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ralsch wrote:
How I love such unfounded statements... Smells like a Boeing extremist to me. Every plane has its advantages and disadvantages, but the 330 is the most successful widebody plane in the medium to long haul sector :twisted:



I have not seen baloney sliced so thin or stacked so high concerning the success of the A330 series.

Which department at Airbus do you work for? Slicing or stacking? :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:00 am 
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leeyein501 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:48 am
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Qantas got a better deal with Airbus both domestically and internationally. Pointless running a wide bodied jet like the B777 YBBN-YSSY 55min flight ANZ use the B777'S they dion't use these aircraft on NZAA/NZWN/NZCH only B733'S A320 jets yet the B789 has being there NZAA/NZCH last year. The Boeing 777's To big for domestic short hops both in NZ and Australia that's why Qantas went with airbus they had many years ago A300'S which were TAA'S before emerging them into the Qantas fleet


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 3:54 am 
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zkokp777 - FlightAware user avatar

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All good points people and some accurate too. I work for QFA for over twenty years at Mascot the home base of Qantas. The options were on the table about the B777'S but the orders were delayed more then the Airbus A330'S Qantas needed aircraft replacements quickly even thought many delays in the bigger brother the A388'S they finally got them through. I am a fan of the Boeing family and the Airbus family both aircraft manufacturers compete well. They have there good sides and the down sides to production but over all there good aircraft built for a big airline. Economically the B777-200'S were the options but being a bigger wide bodied aircraft is harder to fit into smaller regional airports here in Australia.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:46 pm 
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DeclanKinsella - FlightAware user avatar

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Also B777W's are so much cooler than the A330


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:09 am 
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Kyap - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:50 pm
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All about the finances...


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:39 pm 
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trickii1 - FlightAware user avatar

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I understand there would be an opportunity to consider upgrading the order to the A350. Engine configuration and maintenance contracts also a consideration as with recent crash and competitive behavior of its rivals. The industry is also suffering from under supply of aircraft, so time to market making the question more about availability and delivery rather than hardware choices. Looks like the right choice at this moment in time.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:26 pm 
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andrewcarter747b - FlightAware user avatar

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Come now guys let's stay on the topic and the Question the member has asked about why Qantas never ordered the B777's instead of the A330's Simple Qantas thought the A330 were economical to run and less maintenance costs and due to finance reason's. But they ended up with a bucket of lose nuts and bolts with airbus. Now there plagued with maintenance issues
they made the mistake and learnt a lesson being ordered that's the reason. But hey they now have turned to Boeing after getting advice from the Kiwi carrier air new zealand ordering the B789'S due in the fleet 2017. They already have B787'S but they have being assigned to there off shoot budget carrier Jetstar.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:06 pm 
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sueridge307 - FlightAware user avatar

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Thank you all for helping me out I had a good laugh. I phoned Allan Joyce up he spoke to me very well and gave me a free IPAD for mentioning his airline but not a golden hand shake like political people get. The truth is Allan Joyce had taken over from Geoffrey Dickerson the former COE of Qantas and states he choose the A330'S over the 777's as they were not in production at time or sufficiently a production delay were as the A330'S were ready for delivery. How ever he states the A330'S were a bad choice to go with as costing maintain the fleet were very high and not economical now


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:10 am 
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pthomas745 - FlightAware user avatar

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This has been one of the most hilarious threads ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Why did Qantas Airways not order the B777's instead of
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:58 am 
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andrewcarter747b - FlightAware user avatar

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pthomas745 wrote:
This has been one of the most hilarious threads ever.



Yes I had a laugh not a bad one at all


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