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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:00 am 
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lieberma - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:00 am
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Location: Heading to NORDO territory
will744 wrote:
Mechanical failure or not, I think everyone on that plane could still be alive today. Full throttle and push on the yoke I mean "side-stick." :roll:
Is it not that simple?
:(


Unfortunately not.

Trying to envision power settings in this AF scenario.

*Normally* basic 101 flying for stall recovery, power on stalls, pull back on the power, power off stalls, full throttle.

I envision plane power settings set at cruise and it would be interesting to read what changes were made to power.

As erisajd (Nice to see you back!) said (my translation)

Somebody wasn't manning the front office . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:51 am 
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Pat206 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:00 am
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lieberma wrote:
will744 wrote:
I envision plane power settings set at cruise and it would be interesting to read what changes were made to power.
AIUI the autothrottle had disconnected but on Airbi the levers do not move so in order to see the actual power you have to look at the gauges (well, digital readouts). With all else going on at the time it's easy to imagine a quick scan fooling them into believing they did have full power. They didn't; flight idle :shock: , but still no plausible explanation for not monitoring the attitude. Nobody seems to have been doing the flying.


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:33 pm 
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JHEM - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:00 am
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Pat206 wrote:
Nobody seems to have been doing the flying.

I look forward with great anticipation to reading the CVR transcript!


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:00 pm
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So, three seasoned A330 pilots experience a stall at altitude and no one drops the nose and adds power. I'm not a pilot (some day) but I would have known to do that. Three pilots. It does not make sense.

In all due respect to those involved, I do not think we know everything that was happening up there. What were the 'instruments' really telling them? The believe the statement "I have no indications" is quite significant.

I believe there is more to unfold. Much more.

Byron


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:02 pm 
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flyboy97222 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:00 pm
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BJMay wrote:
So, three seasoned A330 pilots experience a stall at altitude and no one drops the nose and adds power. I'm not a pilot (some day) but I would have known to do that. Three pilots. It does not make sense.

In all due respect to those involved, I do not think we know everything that was happening up there. What were the 'instruments' really telling them? The believe the statement "I have no indications" is quite significant.

I believe there is more to unfold. Much more.

Byron



There was 2 unseasoned pilots at the controls and a seasoned pilot in the back of the airplane when it started. The seasoned pilot made it to the flight deck but by that time it was too late


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:16 pm 
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185Driver - FlightAware user avatar

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[quote="flyboy97222]There was 2 unseasoned pilots at the controls and a seasoned pilot in the back of the airplane when it started. The seasoned pilot made it to the flight deck but by that time it was too late[/quote]

I think the term Pilot is being used incorrectly here.
They don't train pilots for Airbuses they train operators. Most of them are Ab-Initio, low time wonder monkeys that never became pilots despite what there certificates may indicate. They were trained how to operate the systems and follow checklist procedures for ab-normal situations. During all that they forgot to make them pilots.


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:28 pm 
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downunderupover - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:00 pm
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French investigators have published a "synthesis note": http://www.bea.aero/en/enquetes/flight. ... af.447.php

Air France denies the report's findings: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14342877


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:38 am 
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Pat206 - FlightAware user avatar

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downunderupover wrote:
Air France denies the report's findings:
Comme d'habitude.


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 am 
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flyboy97222 - FlightAware user avatar

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a company memo was issued at my work regarding this crash and I have to make a retraction-

Both FO's we're experienced in the jet. Both had over 2500tt in the A330.

I will keep this rant short-
to all you would be airline pilots that want to fast track, and skip learning the basic skills that you build upon, and only learn to fly IFR, and think that old school piloting is antiquated- this is your wake up call.


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:07 pm 
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JHEM - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:00 am
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flyboy97222 wrote:
I will keep this rant short-
to all you would be airline pilots that want to fast track, and skip learning the basic skills that you build upon, and only learn to fly IFR, and think that old school piloting is antiquated- this is your wake up call.

+1!


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:23 pm 
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rw812 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:00 am
Posts: 1869
Location: damiross.net
JHEM wrote:
Looks like Airbus and their principal owner, the French government,

EADS, the parent company of Airbus, does not have the French government as their principle owner.

Ownership:
French government: 22.45%
Daimier (German company): 22.45%
Spanish government: 5.47%
Institutional, retail, and employees: 49.17%
Other: 0.46%
source: EADS


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:16 am 
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porterjet - FlightAware user avatar

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARybu2kH ... ata_player


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 Post subject: Re: Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:18 am 
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Ogizzle - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:17 am
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Popular Mechanics has a transcript of the CVR along with other information and industry opinions.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/what-really-happened-aboard-air-france-447-6611877


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