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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Akissack - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:55 pm
Posts: 63
mgunther wrote:
hixter wrote:
Without reading through all 15 pages of posts (although I will probably do so at some point) is it safe to assume that these snazzy new features won't work with a new PiAware 3 installation that uses the OpenStreetMap data instead of Google Maps?

Yes that is my understanding also. @lignumaqua would need to re-write all that stuff to work with the OpenStreetMap. I hope he will do so soon;)


I have managed to get the range plot working with open layers. moving onto heatmap next


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:02 pm 
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m82g - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:06 pm
Posts: 6
Can you explain how you managed to get the range plot?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Akissack - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:55 pm
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m82g wrote:
Can you explain how you managed to get the range plot?

Sure, I seem to have problems posting PM's etc and dont want to clutter this thread. PM your email address and I'll send details


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:11 am 
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MikeMathee - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:35 pm
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Akissack wrote:
m82g wrote:
Can you explain how you managed to get the range plot?

Sure, I seem to have problems posting PM's etc and dont want to clutter this thread. PM your email address and I'll send details


Could you post the instructions on a new thread? I'm sure there is going to be a few interested in it, like me.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:59 am 
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PeterHR - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:02 am
Posts: 700
Location: UK
MikeMathee wrote:
Akissack wrote:
m82g wrote:
Can you explain how you managed to get the range plot?

Sure, I seem to have problems posting PM's etc and dont want to clutter this thread. PM your email address and I'll send details


Could you post the instructions on a new thread? I'm sure there is going to be a few interested in it, like me.


... and once done - edit / update post 1 on the thread so it always has the latest detail version.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:03 pm 
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rack201 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:00 pm
Posts: 1
Hi,

I'm just starting out and I"ve been through the thread but its not clear to me if I can get the range rings from heywhatsthat.com setup under windows? I'm usingn an SDRplay with dump1090 and VRS. On Windows I can't see any of the referenced json files to edit/add?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:45 am 
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bergmanmartin - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:55 am
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholm area, Sweden
Hullo,

A question about purging existing predicted-range rings from map:

Apart from the concentric distance rings I have added terrain-limit rings to the dump1090-mutability local gmap, using the coordinates data in the /usr/share/dump1090-mutability/html/upintheair.json file generated at the heywhatsthat.com site. The "problem" is that these rings don't match reality very well. So I figured it would be interesting to try to substitute a custom hand-made json file, based on several weeks statistical experience and actual range maps from PF.

What confuses me now is the fact that I simply can't make the map "forget" the original set of rings. In order to reach a "blank slate" state in regard to this I have deleted the upintheair.json file, and also commented out the whole section in /usr/share/dump1090-mutability/html/script.js that deals with the generation of terrain-limit rings.

Even so, the rings are still drawn on the map! The polylines are are pretty complex, so it is obvious that the coordinates are stored permanently somewhere else between reboots. But where? What can I do to get rid of those existing, irrelevant rings?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:17 am 
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obj - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:14 pm
Posts: 3667
It's probably just cached in your browser, try clearing your browser cache.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:29 am 
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bergmanmartin - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:55 am
Posts: 5
Location: Stockholm area, Sweden
That simple, huh?

Excuse me while I empty my cache... Wait... Yes, indeed!

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:34 pm 
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k5ted - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:07 am
Posts: 188
Still working on maximum range...

50nm rings

Image


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:49 pm 
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abcd567 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:08 am
Posts: 2125
Location: Toronto CYYZ
@k5ted:
Wow, maximum range exceeds 450 nm (extends beyond 9th 50nm ring).
How did you manage to get such a maximum range?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:43 pm 
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k5ted - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:07 am
Posts: 188
abcd567 wrote:
@k5ted:
Wow, maximum range exceeds 450 nm (extends beyond 9th 50nm ring).
How did you manage to get such a maximum range?


$10 Ground Plane and the 15dB LNA, at 50'-ish. BUT... Seems as if in any direction, the max caps off at 480nm or so. Is that the end-all, maximum radio horizon, or is it artificially created by the VR software?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:34 pm 
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yeu2 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:27 am
Posts: 10
My new site is up and the statistics are really nice. The setup is co-co 12 elements, 33ft(10m) of RG6, FA stick(with bandpass filter, the blue one), pi3. The range is ~240nm with peaks to 270nm.

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 1:03 am 
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toxx - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Dubai,UAE
Good range to Transylvania, as i see you are near Ploiesti, and to W, WNW direction you have lots of mountains. Probably doesn't matter as anyway over the mountains the planes are 10000ft+ so you still catch them. You might want to use a LNA for 10 meters of cable and regardless of that, it helps for range. What kind of CoCo do you have, shorted end or open end , matching impedance resistance on top ?

BR,
Radu


[quote="yeu2"]My new site is up and the statistics are really nice. The setup is co-co 12 elements, 33ft(10m) of RG6, FA stick(with bandpass filter, the blue one), pi3. The range is ~240nm with peaks to 270nm.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:08 pm 
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yeu2 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:27 am
Posts: 10
The coco is an open ended one with last segment the same length as the other ones. I've also had the possibility to cut the last segment in half and short the core to the shield layer but I've preferred the open ended design for sake of simplicity. I've made more than one antennas with small different segments lengths hoping to get the best matching in frequency and as I saw there where no problems with differences of 2-3mm/segment, all the antennas performed really well. I don't have the instrumentation needed to measure the impedance of the antenna and make a stub or add a resistor to adapt it to the cable run but this doesn't seem to be a problem. I saw something interesting, the message rate on dump1090 is around 2200 msgs/s with mode ac enabled but as traffic increases(more than 100 targets) the number of messages drops most probably because there is too much information and the receiver cannot decode it(130 targets with 1700 msgs/s). So if I add a 10db amp most probably the situation will get worst. The site is located 8km SE of Targoviste, Dambovita, Romania, in Lazuri county for a more precise location.

I also have another site in Targoviste, Dambovita, Romania, and that antenna is exposed directly to the outer environment and it also works fine, the problem here is the spectrum pollution, I have a GSM site near to the antenna and the receiver is saturated if the antenna is exposed directly to the GSM antennas. So I've had no option but to hang it on a locker that serves as a shield so I've lost around 90-120* of the skies but the range is surprisingly good on the remaining sight. Also the segments are hydro isolated with heat shrinking tube and mastic and reinforced with zip ties.

What is saw on this forum is that people is trying a lot of various antenna designs that are more or less reliable and the effort to build that antennas is not negligible . A four segment coco antenna has the length of 46cm / 18 in (or less with the last segment cut in half) and works really well. It can also be directly exposed to the outer environment by hanging it on any surface and it is not mandatory to keep the antenna standing with the top up, it can also hang top down. I have a small backup antenna for tests that works excellent and it hangs top down. It took around 15 minutes to build that so my suggestion for everyone is to build one coco antenna of 4, 8 or 12 segments and give it a try before trying other designs or spending the money to buy an antenna.



Andrei

Backup antenna 4 segments coco hanging top down, cable run of around 1m / 3 ft.
Image

My 2nd site, 12 segments coco, 10m / 33ft cable run, 1090 bandpass filter(fa blue one), orange stick, pi3.
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:35 am 
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toxx - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:52 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Dubai,UAE
This is with my 8 legged spider made from coax cable only (ab cd's solution), no filter, cheap 75 ohm cable , about 3.5 meters long

Image

Note that i can't see anything behind me (towards Oman) as the building is faced NW (where the antenna sits)


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:42 pm 
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CXA007 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Belleville ON
With my homemade 12 segment collinear antenna, I see traffic 250+miles out regularly, for about 14,000 position reports a day at the 200mn+ range..

Having outside on my 39th floor balcony helps too :lol:



Image


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:43 am 
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cy80rg - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:46 am
Posts: 431
Hi all,

Been out of the scene for a while...

Have read the how to on mutability, and @lignumaqua scripts - but is the current state of play that the range plots etc wont work until the scripts are updated due to pA using StreetMaps?

Is anyone working on that?

Thanks! :)


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:55 am 
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chrisjohnston50 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:29 am
Posts: 184
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Height of antenna definitely helps line of sight capability.

Currently, I am in my car on the 9th level of the FLL Cypress parking garage, (approximately 100 ft above ground level), and am receiving targets out to 275 NM.

Equipment:

Pi 3 w/FA 3.5
Pro Stick Plus v1.0
FA 1090 Mhz Mode S Filter
FA 26" antenna

I don't know how to upload a screen shot.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:55 pm 
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hbokh - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:07 pm
Posts: 9
Location: GRQ / EHGG
cy80rg wrote:
Hi all,

Been out of the scene for a while...

Have read the how to on mutability, and @lignumaqua scripts - but is the current state of play that the range plots etc wont work until the scripts are updated due to pA using StreetMaps?

Is anyone working on that?

Thanks! :)

I second that question. FA's SkyView is good looking, but lignumaqua's scripts have grown on me over the last 12 months.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:30 am 
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cy80rg - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:46 am
Posts: 431
Not that I wildly dislike the SKyView, just for me the range plots were hugely useful in seeing the impact of changes made to the antenna etc etc.

For me, "how far can I see" is one of the main reasons for running this - seeing the range plot polygon expand was what kept me going! ;)

This was such a useful feature, Im surprised fA havent implimented it themselves.
Is Lignumaqua still around?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Goldy714 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:16 pm
Posts: 33
A spurious pick up a fair way out past my usual range. The rings are at 100km intervals, I wish virtual radar would let me add more.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8axhshyhyezvp ... e.bmp?dl=0


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:08 pm 
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abcd567 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:08 am
Posts: 2125
Location: Toronto CYYZ
Goldy714 wrote:
A spurious pick up a fair way out past my usual range. The rings are at 100km intervals, I wish virtual radar would let me add more.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8axhshyhyezvp ... e.bmp?dl=0

9 VRS Rings x 100 kms = 900 kms = 486 nautical miles, wow!


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:31 pm 
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abcd567 - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:08 am
Posts: 2125
Location: Toronto CYYZ
cy80rg wrote:
This was such a useful feature, Im surprised fA havent implimented it themselves.

I have raised this issue to FA sometimes ago, and the reply is promising, but we have to wait for some time:

"We have similar ideas for future new features. For right now though our focus is on the Skyview interface. We have a lot more we'd like to do to continue to build out the features for data feeders but we can only go so fast. Please stay tuned for more in the future."


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Maximum Range I can Get?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:37 pm 
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cy80rg - FlightAware user avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:46 am
Posts: 431
Thanks abcd567 :)


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